Steve Phillips On Chris Davis Negotiations: 'The Process Was Painfully Ugly'

[TonySoprano]

I do know that, yes. Just stating my opinion.

Also, no self-respecting website should straight up break due to someone's adblocker. There's really no excuse for that.

"their website is an abomination, as are their articles. I'm assuming."

Interesting that you're judging their articles as an abomination, such as those by our own Paul Folk, without reading them. I'm assuming you would want people to extend you more of a courtesy when reading your own posts. Feel free to PM me to discuss further.

[OFFNY]

Listen, the whole financial investment thing has gone completely haywire. Im not sayiong the owners dont have the money, they do. But the idea of a pitcher who, if healthy , throws once a week earning upwards of 25-30 million is nuts. So lets say the Orioles went after Cueto or Price. Then if either of those players blows his arm out where are we then? At least Davis, a flawed player with a high K rate has the ability to affect a game every time he is at bat. He can also play decent defense. I think thre Orioles did what they had to do. They signed Davis, ODay(which was significant too), they signed another power hitter in Trumbo who might add 25-30 HR at OPCY. They signed Kim, an unknown entity, but someone who MIGHT be a pleasant surprise. They signed Wieters for 1 year. A bunch of little deals for some borderline pitching. They STILL need a decent arm but to spend 15 m a year on someone like Fister is nuts too. The whole thing is crazy. And, we arent even discussing the new "opt out" trend which gives no security to a franchise.

During an interview on 105.7 last year, Roy Firestone stated that in general, a starting pitcher can essentially get $1 million per win.

Roy wasn't saying that there were not some nuances to that equation (such as when Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young Award and the ERA title with a record of 13-12 in 2010), just that the general market value is in that area.

With Price signing for as much as he did, the equation may be even higher now ....... for Price himself, anyway. For him, it's $1 Million per start. And off the top of my head, I believe that Scherzer, Kershaw, and Verlander were already there.

[SteveO]

Where is this ridiculous rant even coming from? I've been on Press Box's site on numerous computers and browsers and never ran into a problem. Sounds like you own computer illiteracy is the issue rather than the site but that certainly doesn't stop you from ranting about a site producing some good Baltimore sports content.

And since you apparently use ad blockers, i'd thank to personally thank you for all the sites like ours that use revenue from ads to make our site go. In case you don't realize , that was sarcasm. Guess expecting free content is much better when you get to sit in your comfy home expecting others to work hard so you can just bash on them without even supporting them by viewing an ad once in awhile.

Beautifully said, had I seen it before I responded would not even bothered to respond. Sums it up perfectly.

As someone who makes a secondary living creating, maintaining and marketing (SOO) websites, I get infuriated that people wanna complain about this. These sites are not free, traffic costs money and more traffic costs exponentially more money. It's bad enough ad revenue has dwindled at a rate far greater rate than the price of hosting such sites has risen. I only say this so that hopefully people understand that often a web developer would love to have an ad free site and not have their users subjected to these ads but ultimately, economically, its something they have to do in order to offset costs.

[OFFNY]

Roy Firestone said:

 

Listen, the whole financial investment thing has gone completely haywire. Im not sayiong the owners dont have the money, they do. But the idea of a pitcher who, if healthy , throws once a week earning upwards of 25-30 million is nuts. So lets say the Orioles went after Cueto or Price. Then if either of those players blows his arm out where are we then? At least Davis, a flawed player with a high K rate has the ability to affect a game every time he is at bat. He can also play decent defense. I think thre Orioles did what they had to do. They signed Davis, ODay(which was significant too), they signed another power hitter in Trumbo who might add 25-30 HR at OPCY. They signed Kim, an unknown entity, but someone who MIGHT be a pleasant surprise. They signed Wieters for 1 year. A bunch of little deals for some borderline pitching. They STILL need a decent arm but to spend 15 m a year on someone like Fister is nuts too. The whole thing is crazy. And, we arent even discussing the new "opt out" trend which gives no security to a franchise.

 

OFFNY said:

 

During an interview on 105.7 last year, Roy Firestone stated that in general, a starting pitcher can essentially get $1 million per win.

Roy wasn't saying that there were not some nuances to that equation (such as when Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young Award and the ERA title with a record of 13-12 in 2010), just that the general market value is in that area.

With Price signing for as much as he did, the equation may be even higher now ....... for Price himself, anyway. For him, it's $1 Million per start. And off the top of my head, I believe that Scherzer, Kershaw, and Verlander were already there.

 

o

 

More from Roy Firestone on the matter of players' salaries (from last summer):

 

MONDAY, JUNE 1st:

 

SCOTT GARCEAU: OThe state of players salaries ???

ROY FIRESTONE: OYou know, the highest-paid players make about 500 times what most other Americans make. In fact, Clayton Kershaw makes 700 times what most other American make.

Looking back, Mickey Mantle made $90,000 in 1961. Now, even if you convert that to today's economy, that is still only $7 Million per year. Can you imagine a player like Mantle getting pai $7 Million at the height of his career?

Another example is my friend, Brooks Robinson. In between the 1966 and 1967 seasons, the Orioles were the defending world champions. Brooks asked Harry Dalton for a $500 bonus. Dalton refused. Brooks had to REALLY FIGHT, and Dalton finally acquiesced, and gave him the $500 bonus ...... BUT ...... Dalton also stated, "I'm giving it to you, but you had BETTER PLAY well on the field for this extra money I am giving you."

THAT EXCHANGE between Robinson and Dalton gives you an idea of how much the balance of power (and the accompanying skyrocketing players salaries) has changed from then to now.

There was a time that fans could relate to players, almost like one of them. That is no longer. Baseball is a caste system today.

There was a time that you could sit in a box seat for $5, and you just might be two rows away from Nelson Rockefeller. Now, the fans are divided into haves and have-nots. Today, a game at Dodger Stadium costs $400 for one night for a family of 4. if you include all of the expenses.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/147477-I-ll-be-on-the-FAN-105-7-quot-(TODAY-2-pm-on)/page3?highlight=Firestone+Interview+105.7

[SteveO]

More from Roy Firestone on the matter of players' salaries (from last summer):

MONDAY, JUNE 1st:

SCOTT GARCEAU: OThe state of players salaries ???

ROY FIRESTONE: OYou know, the highest-paid players make about 500 times what most other Americans make. In fact, Clayton Kershaw makes 700 times what most other American make.

Looking back, Mickey Mantle made $90,000 in 1961. Now, even if you convert that to today's economy, that is still only $7 Million per year. Can you imagine a player like Mantle getting pai $7 Million at the height of his career?

Another example is my friend, Brooks Robinson. In between the 1966 and 1967 seasons, the Orioles were the defending world champions. Brooks asked Harry Dalton for a $500 bonus. Dalton refused. Brooks had to REALLY FIGHT, and Dalton finally acquiesced, and gave him the $500 bonus ...... BUT ...... Dalton also stated, "I'm giving it to you, but you had BETTER PLAY well on the field for this extra money I am giving you."

THAT EXCHANGE between Robinson and Dalton gives you an idea of how much the balance of power (and the accompanying skyrocketing players salaries) has changed from then to now.

There was a time that fans could relate to players, almost like one of them. That is no longer. Baseball is a caste system today.

There was a time that you could sit in a box seat for $5, and you just might be two rows away from Nelson Rockefeller. Now, the fans are divided into haves and have-nots. Today, a game at Dodger Stadium costs $400 for one night for a family of 4. if you include all of the expenses.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/147477-I-ll-be-on-the-FAN-105-7-quot-(TODAY-2-pm-on)/page3?highlight=Firestone+Interview+105.7

Not getting political but it has to be pointed out the the income disparity between those in the top 1% of earners and the average working Joe has been ever widening since 1980. Why would baseball be any different? Just look at the gap between a CEO or upper level management at any major company and the people who work for them.

If anything I applaud the fact that through a strong union the players have managed to slice a nice little piece of the massive financial pie that is MLB. If anyone believes that we would be paying less for tickets if CD made 7 miillion then they are kidding themselves IMO, the owners would simply be pocketing a larger slice of the pie than they are now.

[Tx Oriole]

Duquette is on record as saying one of his primary goals this offseason was to acquire a TOR-type pitcher, a #1, #2 or #3. If he doesn't manage to pull that off in the coming weeks, the offseason will be a failure, regardless that we kept Davis...

Angelos runs the show. DD may want a TOR but Peter still has control. IMO

[Fan4Life]

Yes. Or Kazmir for 4 years.

However, Phillips assumption seems to be that the Davis money could have been spent on pitching and/or other players. Some OH folks have been saying the money was approved for Davis and Davis only. If that is true, then to a great extent the finger should be pointed at Angelos rather than DD for not making the full budget available to his GM/VP.

I would also say that the O'Day signing was bizarre in view of the team's real needs, and I agree that the Orioles bid against themselves both with the original $150M deal and the increase to $160 (although I understand the deal is arguably worth the same because of the deferred money).

Anyone pointing the finger at DD instead of ownership isn't well versed on the history of this organization since PA took over. I don't think PA is an awful person, he just shouldn't own a baseball team if he cant trust the people he hires to run the organization within his guidelines.

[OFFNY]

Not getting political but it has to be pointed out the the income disparity between those in the top 1% of earners and the average working Joe has been ever widening since 1980. Why would baseball be any different? Just look at the gap between a CEO or upper level management at any major company and the people who work for them.

If anything I applaud the fact that through a strong union the players have managed to slice a nice little piece of the massive financial pie that is MLB. If anyone believes that we would be paying less for tickets if CD made $7 Miillion then they are kidding themselves IMO, the owners would simply be pocketing a larger slice of the pie than they are now.

Those are some very good points/nuances that also need to be taken into consideration when talking about the whole picture of money and salaries.

Thanks.

[SteveO]

Those are some very good points/nuances that also need to be taken into consideration when talking about the whole picture of money and salaries.

Thanks.

I agree that these guys are getting paid astronomical amounts of money and its pretty ridiculous that CD is gonna pocket 161 million for 7 years worth of work playing a game. That said, its more a sign of the times and our society as a whole than a problem specific to baseball if that makes some sense.

[Ohfan67]

"$160 million is $160 million" without regard to deferred money is valid? Basing your argument on the pitching wins statistic is valid? Sorry, but Phillips' argument far from valid, IMO. I believe that one can formulate a good argument to support Phillips' opinion, but Phillips certainly hasn't done so.

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. His comments that the O's have not addressed their primary offseason need (starting pitching) were valid, in my opinion.

[Redskins Rick]

During an interview on 105.7 last year, Roy Firestone stated that in general, a starting pitcher can essentially get $1 million per win.

Roy wasn't saying that there were not some nuances to that equation (such as when Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young Award and the ERA title with a record of 13-12 in 2010), just that the general market value is in that area.

With Price signing for as much as he did, the equation may be even higher now ....... for Price himself, anyway. For him, it's $1 Million per start. And off the top of my head, I believe that Scherzer, Kershaw, and Verlander were already there.

1 million per start is ludicrous.

[SteveO]

1 million per start is ludicrous.

Is it? Clearly the money is there. When teams like the Arizona Diamondbacks are getting north of 1.5 billion over the next 20 years, is it so crazy that the players that generate the audience that brings in that ridiculous amount of money, see their share of it?

[25 Nuggets]

Not getting political but it has to be pointed out the the income disparity between those in the top 1% of earners and the average working Joe has been ever widening since 1980. Why would baseball be any different? Just look at the gap between a CEO or upper level management at any major company and the people who work for them.

If anything I applaud the fact that through a strong union the players have managed to slice a nice little piece of the massive financial pie that is MLB. If anyone believes that we would be paying less for tickets if CD made 7 miillion then they are kidding themselves IMO, the owners would simply be pocketing a larger slice of the pie than they are now.

This is a case where, since sports are a microcosm of society and baseball is a big economic entity, I think it's appropriate to talk the the politics of it. And you are absolutely right. There are more and more things happening in major revenue sports that indicate the average fan / cheaper ticket is largely irrelevant.

And so we have the Rams moving to LA, the Chargers probably moving to LA and the Raiders possibly moving to San Diego to replace the chargers. Imagine being a die-hard Chargers fan having the Raiders in your home town. It's depressing.

[El Gordo]

Apparently Phillips has not only never met Peter Angelos, he has never even heard of him.

[25 Nuggets]

We talkin' about Steve Phillips? Is that what we're doing? Just checking.

Yay!

This is my take. [hot take!] $17 mil over the length of his contract (or a bit more if you want to use the luxury tax number) on a possible MVP candidate does not break a $140 mil budget. The Orioles needed to spend on wins because their farm system isn't ready with prime talent to replace lost wins. They believe they found better value in position players than starting pitchers, who they think are being overpaid worse.