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Have the O's ever had a more talented position player than Manny Machacdo?


wildcard

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The Four Hall of Famers, Grich, and Buford were all better. But Manny may eclipse some of them. 20 years is a long time to stay good.

I'd like to hear your argument for Buford. Fine player, who did a great job for us in '68-'71, but I don't see how he's in Manny's league.

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The Four Hall of Famers, Grich, and Buford were all better. But Manny may eclipse some of them. 20 years is a long time to stay good.

You make a good point about Eddie Murray. Incredible hitter with 3 gold gloves. But I would put Manny's defense above Eddie's because of the position.

I would not put Buford in the conversation.

Longevity plays a big role in being a HOFer. I was not comparing careers. I am asking for thought on talent level without including longevity.

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I meant Baylor, typed Buford.

I actually would have found Buford more convincing.

Baylor: 28.3 rWAR in 19 seasons, peak season was 3.7 rWAR.

Buford: 36.3 rWAR in 10 seasons, peak season was 7.0 rWAR (four seasons of 4.5 or better with the Orioles).

Buford is probably the most underrated player from the great 1969-71 teams.

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You make a good point about Eddie Murray. Incredible hitter with 3 gold gloves. But I would put Manny's defense above Eddie's because of the position.

I would not put Buford in the conversation.

Longevity plays a big role in being a HOFer. I was not comparing careers. I am asking for thought on talent level without including longevity.

The thing with Eddie that unless you were old enough to have seen him play, dont know this.

Eddie was such an outstanding athlete that he moved with such ease, at times, he didnt look like he was actually putting forth an effort.

In fact, some tagged him as lazy, and that was far from the case, unless you sat back and saw the bigger picture, like how much ground he covered in a short amount of time,

Eddie was a 5 tool player, while he wasn't a big base stealer, he did use his speed to turn singles to doubles and could turn the triple at times.

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I think Alomar is in the discussion. He didn't have the longevity for us, but certainly overall.

I was going to say the same thing. His tenure was short, and trended downward over the course of three seasons, but Alomar could literally do it all. Hit for average, get on base, give some occasional power at a position not normally known for it, and of course play great defense. Manny has always reminded of Alomar for some reason, although I think his offensive ceiling is much higher.

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I actually would have found Buford more convincing.

Baylor: 28.3 rWAR in 19 seasons, peak season was 3.7 rWAR.

Buford: 36.3 rWAR in 10 seasons, peak season was 7.0 rWAR (four seasons of 4.5 or better with the Orioles).

Buford is probably the most underrated player from the great 1969-71 teams.

Good catch in both cases.

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I am not talking about longevity. I mean on pure talent. Offensively and defensively. You could throw in mental makeup.

Frank Robinson was very talented offensively. A good defensive player but not as good as Manny. By the years that Frank played with the O's in his 30's his mental makeup and leadership was off the charts. He had real resolve to beat the other team. He had his trials with makeup before he came to Baltimore.

Brooks was fantastic. Great defensively. But Manny arm is better. Brooks was good offensively but it didn't reach the level of his defensive. He was/is a nice, nice guy. Some one that people named their kids after. Talent wise I give Manny an edge. Remember we are not talk longevity here.

Bobby Grich sticks out to me as a very good all around player. Great defense, Good offense. Tough guy on the field. Overall I think Manny has an edge in talent though.

What is your opinion?

Cal is the one I am thinking of.

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That's pushing it. I think he had a decent arm and played some 3B in the minors but I"m not sure the arm was above average and I'd call the speed average at best, maybe earlier in his career. He was a consistent power threat although he never hit more than 33 in any one year. I'd call Machado closer to a 5 tool payer although he comes up a bit short in the speed category.

The thing with Eddie and 33 bombs, that was a different ERA, Mike Schmidt lead the league with 40.

He did manage to hit 500+ HRs in his career.

I think we were comparing players with they were in their younger 20s.

Eddie at 24, hit 32 HRs and the leader was Kingman at 37.

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That's pushing it. I think he had a decent arm and played some 3B in the minors but I"m not sure the arm was above average and I'd call the speed average at best, maybe earlier in his career. He was a consistent power threat although he never hit more than 33 in any one year. I'd call Machado closer to a 5 tool payer although he comes up a bit short in the speed category.

Totally agree. I would add that Eddie's mental approach as a young Oriole was very tough. I think late in his O's career Edward Bennet Williams comments got to him. Mostly Williams fault.

Eddie was a better hitter than Manny so far. Manny better on defense.

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