The Defense Thread, 2016

[mcpd]

Yeah Janish looked good. If Flaherty is not gonna hit, I would take Janish over Flaherty

[Frobby]

May 25

A lot of notable plays tonight.

- 2 errors by Manny in the 1st, but erased on a very nice 4-6-3 DP that a lot of teams wouldn't have executed.

- 2 errors by Wilson, one a bobble on a bunt and the other failing to catch Manny's throw on a 3-6-1 DP attempt. Unfortunately, a 2 run homer followed.

- Alvarez deflected a high hopper that most 3B probably would have handled IMO. He also bobbled another grounder but was able to recover and make the throw. But he does not inspire confidence out there.

- Reimold made two perfect throws to 2B, but in each case the runner beat it by a hair. On the first one, Reimold misjudged the ricochet off the wall just slightly and that may have cost the opportunity to nail the runner.

- Wieters gunned down Correa at 3B on a perfect throw. He also made a nice snap throw to 1B earlier but the runner got back.

There was a lot on the Astros side as well, but I won't get into all that.

[24fps]

Yeah Janish looked good. If Flaherty is not gonna hit, I would take Janish over Flaherty

I'm ready to see Janish at SS and Manny back at 3B.

[ReclaimTheCrown]

Well that was a rough one...

Question, though, about the second error on Wilson: I had always understood that you can't "assume a double play", so when a guy fouls up one element of a double play (a dropped transfer, a throw in the dirt that a first baseman can't scoop as long as it doesn't allow the runner to advance, etc), an error is not assessed. Isn't that the same as Wilson's case with the dropped catch? Obviously, it was a blatant miscue on a fully routine play, but I would've assumed that, because we recorded an out and one "can't assume a double play", it would've gone down as a simple Fielder's Choice.

Anyone able to explain where I'm off here? I guess I'm just failing to accurately understand the scope of the assumption of a double play rule, but there's not much that surprises me in baseball anymore after all these years, but that was one of 'em. Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aristotelian]

Well that was a rough one...

Question, though, about the second error on Wilson: I had always understood that you can't "assume a double play", so when a guy fouls up one element of a double play (a dropped transfer, a throw in the dirt that a first baseman can't scoop as long as it doesn't allow the runner to advance, etc), an error is not assessed. Isn't that the same as Wilson's case with the dropped catch? Obviously, it was a blatant miscue on a fully routine play, but I would've assumed that, because we recorded an out and one "can't assume a double play", it would've gone down as a simple Fielder's Choice.

Anyone able to explain where I'm off here? I guess I'm just failing to accurately understand the scope of the assumption of a double play rule, but there's not much that surprises me in baseball anymore after all these years, but that was one of 'em. Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They talked about that but never really explained it. I think that guideline usually applies on the fielding/exchange/throw side of the play. Very rarely do you see the error on the catch at the end. If it is on the catch and the throw clearly beats the runner, I think you can assume that if he catches it the double play will be completed, so I like the error scoring there.

[Frobby]

Here is the official rule:

9.12(d): The official scorer shall not charge an error against...

(3) any fielder who makes a wild throw in attempting to complete

a double play or triple play, unless such wild

throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base such

runner would have reached had the throw not been wild;

Rule 9.12(d) Comment: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball

that, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play,

the official scorer shall charge an error to the fielder who drops

the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_rules.jsp

So, bottom line, errant throws completing a DP aren't scored as errors unless the runner advances, but dropped throws at 1B are.

[ReclaimTheCrown]

Here is the official rule:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_rules.jsp

So, bottom line, errant throws completing a DP aren't scored as errors unless the runner advances, but dropped throws at 1B are.

Well there ya go....the rule is very straightforward. Thanks, guys.

[backwardsk]

May 25

A lot of notable plays tonight.

- 2 errors by Manny in the 1st, but erased on a very nice 4-6-3 DP that a lot of teams wouldn't have executed.

- 2 errors by Wilson, one a bobble on a bunt and the other failing to catch Manny's throw on a 3-6-1 DP attempt. Unfortunately, a 2 run homer followed.

- Alvarez deflected a high hopper that most 3B probably would have handled IMO. He also bobbled another grounder but was able to recover and make the throw. But he does not inspire confidence out there.

- Reimold made two perfect throws to 2B, but in each case the runner beat it by a hair. On the first one, Reimold misjudged the ricochet off the wall just slightly and that may have cost the opportunity to nail the runner.

- Wieters gunned down Correa at 3B on a perfect throw. He also made a nice snap throw to 1B earlier but the runner got back.

There was a lot on the Astros side as well, but I won't get into all that.

Schoop made a really nice diving stop, glove side, and threw the runner out. Kemp, maybe.

[Can_of_corn]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Slide, spin, fire an 89.2-mph strike. That’s Manny. <a href="https://t.co/NeIUTPMptZ">https://t.co/NeIUTPMptZ</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Statcast?src=hash">#Statcast</a> <a href="https://t.co/4OxhhVOZTx">pic.twitter.com/4OxhhVOZTx</a></p>— #Statcast (@statcast) <a href="

">May 29, 2016</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Frobby]

That was an awesome play.

[Aristotelian]

Our defense first, 3B, Flaherty could have cost us the game. Just saw the highlight. A tailor made DP in the 9th with 1st and 2nd and he makes the mistake of trying to tag the runner going by him. That split second did two things. It put Schoop in harm's way at 2B with the runner right on top of him and it caused the play at 1st which was of the bang, bang variety to be safe. It didn't cost us but it could have. If he ignores the runner and just throws to 2B, its a sure DP. With one out there's no reason to try and tag the runner. Really, really dumb.

Could have gotten a triple play or double play with the two lead runners. You are right but I am not going to beat Flaherty up for that one.

[El Gordo]

Could have gotten a triple play or double play with the two lead runners. You are right but I am not going to beat Flaherty up for that one.

Can't anticipate the DP but if he had a shot at the lead run why not take it?

[Frobby]

June 1

In this crazy 13-9 game, I think perhaps the key play came with 2 outs in the top of the 3rd, 3 runs already in for Boston, bases loaded, Worley struggling badly. The batter hit a ball that eluded Davis' glove as he dove, but Schoop was able to snare it backing up, and Worley had the presence of mind to hustle over to cover and arrived just before the runner as Schoop threw accurately for the out. There's about 10 ways that play could have gone wrong. It stopped the Red Sox' momentum and the O's retook the lead in the bottom of the inning.

Trumbo threw out Ortiz at 2B on a nice throw from the corner.

Manny slipped while getting ready to throw on a ball he fielded on the grass up the middle, but foolishly threw anyway. Davis couldn't handle the hop and it bounced away, eventually leading to Boston tying the game.

[OFFNY]

o

(vs. ROYALS, 6/08)

Ryan Edward Flaherty has already made 2 excellent plays tonight, and it's still only the 6th inning.

He really has been eating up a lot of balls at 3rd base, as of late.

[backwardsk]

Flaherty made an outstanding play to end the game.

Davis grabbed a coin off the top of the backboard to snare a liner.

Jones made a Jones-like running catch in right center.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk