The Dan Era: Best and Worst Moves

[LookitsPuck]

I think a lot of his picks could be really good. He's the best GM we've had since Pat Gillick, whereas McPhail was more hit and miss with his picks and trades.

On the contrary. I think MacPhail's trades have been absolutely stellar. He's the real architect to the core of this team. Duquette's strength lies in making moves for the now and making depth signings to shore up some deficiencies.

This club, overall, has made very poor picks over the years (Duquette and MacPhail) and perhaps done a worse job growing them.

[MDtransplant757]

McPhail didn't miss with his trades. That's part of why people cant put some of DD's trades into perspective.

MacPhail was good at trades, but more hit and miss with drafting (Matusz, Hobgood, etc). Should have reworded that original post.

[LookitsPuck]

All the Areieta people were saying the opposite a few years ago. Yeah, it sucks he's a great pitcher in CHI, but he was done here. Good for him to turn it around, but there was no chance of that in BAL.

The point about Arrieta is WHO he was traded for. Strop and Arrieta were given up for Feldman (who has a terrible track record of a starter and very limited success w/ the Cubs as one) and Clevenger. It was very much like the Parra trade. Trading a for a non-impact player on a club that was average at best.

[MDtransplant757]

On the contrary. I think MacPhail's trade have been absolutely stellar. He's the real architect to the core of this team. Duquette's strength lies in making moves for the now and making depth signings to shore up some deficiencies.

This club, overall, has made very poor picks over the years (Duquette and MacPhail) and perhaps done a worse job growing them.

I won't argue with you about that, Andy did help build this team (Davis, Jones, Hardy, etc.) and his trades were great, but he couldn't draft or sign pitching to save him. The only good pick I remember him having was Manny Machado. Dan has been leagues above Andy in that regard. I think we've gotten rid of some of the fat and other people that didn't help under MacPhail like our pitching coach, and gotten Dave Wallace and Don Chitti; who are remarkable people. Met Dave when he was with the Marlins, and he helped guys like Josh Johnson be amazing pitchers because of it.

[MDtransplant757]

The point about Arrieta is WHO he was traded for. Strop and Arrieta were given up for Feldman (who has a terrible track record of a starter and very limited success w/ the Cubs as one) and Clevenger. It was very much like the Parra trade. Trading a for a non-impact player on a club that was average at best.

Clevenger got us Trumbo, so he kind of did have an impact.

[LookitsPuck]

We will see. It all depends on how Buck uses him. If he's a regular OF'er, he will be an average player at best when taking into account offense. This club has way too many DH types on it right now. Reimold, Alvarez, Trumbo and (maybe) Kim. That kills flexibility and defense.

[OFFNY]

waroriole said:

 

All the Arrieta people were saying the opposite a few years ago. Yeah, it sucks he's a great pitcher in CHI, but he was done here. Good for him to turn it around, but there was no chance of that in BAL.

 

LookitsPuck said:

 

The point about Arrieta is WHO he was traded for. Strop and Arrieta were given up for Feldman (who has a terrible track record of a starter and very limited success w/ the Cubs as one) and Clevenger. It was very much like the Parra trade. Trading a for a non-impact player on a club that was average at best.

 

o

 

With the way that Arrieta was pitching at the time of the trade, what/who/how much could Duquette have gotten for him at the time that he didn't get ???

Arrieta's numbers had gotten progressively worse each and every year that he had pitched for the Orioles.

These were Arrieta's ERA numbers each year that he pitched for the Orioles before he was traded. By that time, his numbers were not only not good, they weren't even mediocre ........ they were off-the-charts horrible. Duquette had no leverage whatsoever in terms of demanding anything more than what he got for Arrieta.

 

2010: lll 4.66ll

2011: lll 5.05

2012: lll 6.20

2013:  llll 7.23

 

His WHIP started out very high to begin with, lowered some over the next 2 years, and then went through the roof in his final season with the Orioles:

 

2010: lll 1.535

2011: lll 1.458

2012: lll 1.369

2013: lll 1.775

 

o

[LookitsPuck]

Send him to the minors. I wrote an extensive piece that there were promising signs about Jake. That said, I think Buck and Dan ruined him. The TTP infatuation coupled with the anti-cutter mantra totally screwed with Jake. His issues have always been men on base. He was always in his own head because of Buck, IMHO.

Now, I love Buck. Infinitely more than Duquette. But Jake has been very vocal about change of sceneries and you can imagine why.

[LookitsPuck]

Also, trading Arrieta for a traditionally awful SP who was just a flash in the pan for the Cubs is the issue. You don't have to make a trade just to do it. Arrieta had options. Strop didn't and I get that part. But man that was a blunder. I didn't like the trade then. But mostly because I think the O's screwed him.

[Crazysilver03]

As figured, this thread devolves into an Arrieta thread, where everyone states their piece for the 100th time and no one changes their opinion.

[LookitsPuck]

Considering the thread is about Duquette's good and bad...why shouldn't it? It's part of his tenure.

[ArtVanDelay]

I think a lot of his picks could be really good. He's the best GM we've had since Pat Gillick, whereas McPhail was more hit and miss with his picks and trades.

I think you're mixing up AM and DD.

[Sessh]

Send him to the minors. I wrote an extensive piece that there were promising signs about Jake. That said, I think Buck and Dan ruined him. The TTP infatuation coupled with the anti-cutter mantra totally screwed with Jake. His issues have always been men on base. He was always in his own head because of Buck, IMHO.

Now, I love Buck. Infinitely more than Duquette. But Jake has been very vocal about change of sceneries and you can imagine why.

The thing about the Arrieta situation that bothers me was that as you said, Jake did show promising signs. There were more than a few games where he would come out and no hit the opposing team through the first three innings with like six strikeouts, then not be able to get out of the fourth inning. The signs were there and all Chicago needed was 50 innings to fix him; FIFTY innings to do what the Orioles couldn't do in 3.5 years. That was a problem with the Orioles coaches and not Jake and it cost us what we desperately need now; a TOR pitcher. We had one and didn't recognize the talent and didn't have the coaching staff to bring it out of him.

I didn't like the Parra trade at all and I don't like how we always seem to be barrel scrapers in the offseason.

[MDtransplant757]

I think you're mixing up AM and DD.

I did when it came to trades and drafting

Sent from Neverneverland using James Hetfield's voice

[Crazysilver03]

Considering the thread is about Duquette's good and bad...why shouldn't it? It's part of his tenure.

Can you please show me my "blind support" of DD?