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Manny's defense at SS

Frobby

By Frobby
in Orioles Talk

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calmunderfire Major Leaguer Rising Star

calmunderfire

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Yeah maybe we should have paid Chase Headely 4/$52 mm like the Yankees did.

NOT!

Please tell me the 3B you would have liked to have signed in the 2014-15 offseason. What "effort" should we have made instead of signing a guy who has been a stalwart for this team?

JJ Hardy is a below league average hitter. If you can eliminate that from your lineup you should do that. Its much easier to sign or develop a good hitting 3B than SS.

Additionally, I challenge your assertion that Hardy is a better defender at SS. I have no metrics to back that up. But my assertion just like yours doesn't have the sample size to draw accurate observations.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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JJ Hardy is a below league average hitter. If you can eliminate that from your lineup you should do that. Its much easier to sign or develop a good hitting 3B than SS.

Additionally, I challenge your assertion that Hardy is a better defender at SS. I have no metrics to back that up. But my assertion just like yours doesn't have the sample size to draw accurate observations.

Thanks for [not] answering my question about what 3B you would like to have signed.

I'm not going to tell you that 188/226 innings at SS tells us who is better at SS. I do think that the last four years show us that Hardy at SS and Manny at 3B is the best defensive combo in baseball on the left side of the infield.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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JJ Hardy is a below league average hitter. If you can eliminate that from your lineup you should do that. Its much easier to sign or develop a good hitting 3B than SS.

Additionally, I challenge your assertion that Hardy is a better defender at SS. I have no metrics to back that up. But my assertion just like yours doesn't have the sample size to draw accurate observations.

No he's not, his career average is .720 OPS. [Plus he is usually worth 20 RS saved on defense. Last year he was worth 12.2 RS in 114 G while Manny was worth 11.2 RS in 162
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calmunderfire Major Leaguer Rising Star

calmunderfire

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Thanks for [not] answering my question about what 3B you would like to have signed.

I'm not going to tell you that 188/226 innings at SS tells us who is better at SS. I do think that the last four years show us that Hardy at SS and Manny at 3B is the best defensive combo in baseball on the left side of the infield.

I agree with you on that one. But I do not like Hardy's bat in the lineup. Don't get me wrong Flaherty's and Janish's bat make me want to vomit. But I'm tempted to lock down SS with a great hitter and then look for a 3B who can hit which is vastly easier to find.

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calmunderfire Major Leaguer Rising Star

calmunderfire

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No he's not, his career average is .720 OPS. [Plus he is usually worth 20 RS saved on defense. Last year he was worth 12.2 RS in 114 G while Manny was worth 11.2 RS in 162

He's a career 91 wRC+ man. He's a career .307 OBP man. He's a below average hitter.

Manny is worth my runs saved (defensive) per game in his career. So far he's been the better defensive player. He'll probably continue to be the better defensive player. And will probably finish his career as the better defensive player.

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TINSTAAPP Perennial All-Star

TINSTAAPP

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It would be ideal if the Orioles trade Hardy for a starting pitcher after this season. The only problem would be finding a 3B to replace Machado. It's a very top-heavy position. There are 8-10 really good ones and a whole bunch of dreck after that.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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It would be ideal if the Orioles trade Hardy for a starting pitcher after this season. The only problem would be finding a 3B to replace Machado. It's a very top-heavy position. There are 8-10 really good ones and a whole bunch of dreck after that.

I think getting Hardy to waive his 10/5 status might constitute a second problem. That's assuming Hardy shows enough this year to be worth anything in trade.

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calmunderfire Major Leaguer Rising Star

calmunderfire

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I was using fangraphs' def, which compares positions using an adjustment. That is why Hardy was better at SS than Manny at 3B last season, in spite of only playing 114 G. RS at SS are worth more than RS at 3B. http://www.fangraphs.com/library/defense/def/

And if Machado is given the opportunity to play SS his positional value goes up as well. We don't have the sample size yet with Manny SS to make strong conclusions. What we do know is that he's a flat out more talented defender than Hardy. He's been a more dynamic defensive player. He currently is more dynamic and will likely finish his career as the better defensive player. It's just the way it is.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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And if Machado is given the opportunity to play SS his positional value goes up as well. We don't have the sample size yet with Manny SS to make strong conclusions. What we do know is that he's a flat out more talented defender than Hardy. He's been a more dynamic defensive player. He currently is more dynamic and will likely finish his career as the better defensive player. It's just the way it is.
You may know that but speak for yourself I haven't seen enough yet. Manny has the tools but he lacks the experience and he is still error prone. He isn't the field general that Hardy is. He may eventually become a better SS than Hardy, but I doubt he is this year.
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calmunderfire Major Leaguer Rising Star

calmunderfire

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You may know that but speak for yourself I haven't seen enough yet. Manny has the tools but he lacks the experience and he is still error prone. He isn't the field general that Hardy is. He may eventually become a better SS than Hardy, but I doubt he is this year.

You can't possibly dispute that he has more raw natural talent than Hardy.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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You can't possibly dispute that he has more raw natural talent than Hardy.
I'm not. If you reads carefully you'll see I think he has the tools to be a great defensive SS, but he isn't one yet, and Hardy still is.
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