Ichiro 3000 Hit Watch

[bobmc]

And they used these to field.

They were in better shape than that! :slytf: I had one of these when I first played ball in the late '40's - my dad had used it.

And these to hit with:

[DrungoHazewood]

* There are some jaded enough, however, to downplay Ichiro's record because he is a singles hitter. He has a record-breaking 220 singles, more than any other player in baseball has hits. Sisler, by comparison, had 86 extra-base hits, including 19 home runs, and drove in 122 runs. Ichiro has driven in 59 runs.

Ichiro also has broken the record in the 160th game of a 162-game season, while in 1920 the season was 154 games long. Baseball statisticians long ago removed the figurative "asterisk" on 162-game records, choosing to recognize only one record.

Many would argue that the eight-game difference is small compared with the disadvantages faced by modern players. In 1920, pitchers usually pitched complete games, where now Ichiro might see four different pitchers in five at-bats. Opposing managers bring in specialists just to get him out. And pitchers today feature a wicked array of breaking balls unheard of 84 years ago."

http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/Ichiro-breaks-84-year-old-record-for-hits-in-a-1155680.php

And they used these to field.

Sisler also played in segregated league that kind of haphazardly drew from a much smaller population base. Communication and scouting and the transfer/funneling of players to the majors was primitive. The league Sisler played in was several steps back from today's Japanese leagues in many respects, and very clearly behind today's majors.

And I learned to catch a baseball with my Dad's glove that was not dissimilar to the one in the picture. The fingers were connected by leather cords, and the pocket a little better defined, but otherwise similar. You had to catch with two hands. That's why oldtimers still tell kids that, it used to be non-optional and not counter-productive.

[Ohfan67]

I think you oversimplify. It wasn't necessarily the 3000 hits. I believe Ichiro has stated he wants to keep playing for a good while, even if its back in Japan. Julio Franco wasn't near any kind of milestone, he's not going to the Hall, he didn't get 3000 hits, but at the age of 39 he was basically dumped by MLB and played several years in Mexico, Japan, and Korea. Then came back to the states and played as a part timer in MLB until he was 48. Rickey broke the SB record and then went on playing for like 15 years, despite some less than steller seasons with .600-something OPSes, then in indy ball in his md-40s.

I think the unwritten rule is that great (or even pretty good) and famous players get to keep playing as long as they want, just so long as they'll accept a role and a league befitting their talent. Nolan Reimold basically had Ichiro's 2015 offensive season at 29 and nobody made him retire. Last year Ichiro was a PH, PR, or defensive replacement in 40% of his appearances, give or take.

I hear you. Good points.

[Ohfan67]

I think you oversimplify. It wasn't necessarily the 3000 hits. I believe Ichiro has stated he wants to keep playing for a good while, even if its back in Japan. Julio Franco wasn't near any kind of milestone, he's not going to the Hall, he didn't get 3000 hits, but at the age of 39 he was basically dumped by MLB and played several years in Mexico, Japan, and Korea. Then came back to the states and played as a part timer in MLB until he was 48. Rickey broke the SB record and then went on playing for like 15 years, despite some less than steller seasons with .600-something OPSes, then in indy ball in his md-40s.

I think the unwritten rule is that great (or even pretty good) and famous players get to keep playing as long as they want, just so long as they'll accept a role and a league befitting their talent. Nolan Reimold basically had Ichiro's 2015 offensive season at 29 and nobody made him retire. Last year Ichiro was a PH, PR, or defensive replacement in 40% of his appearances, give or take.

I think you provide a very good response to your previous comments denigrating Rose: "How many hits do you think Ichiro would have if he came to the US at 18, and was allowed to write his own name in the lineup to keep piling up hits in his mid-40s?" Rose would have played somewhere whether he managed the team or not.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think you provide a very good response to your previous comments denigrating Rose: "How many hits do you think Ichiro would have if he came to the US at 18, and was allowed to write his own name in the lineup to keep piling up hits in his mid-40s?" Rose would have played somewhere whether he managed the team or not.

Yea, probably. Even if there was some level of eye-rolling as the 43-year-old Rose sprinted to first on walks while hitting .240 with no homers, there was enough of a Rose adoration society he'd have played anyway.

[Ohfan67]

Yea, probably. Even if there was some level of eye-rolling as the 43-year-old Rose sprinted to first on walks while hitting .240 with no homers, there was enough of a Rose adoration society he'd have played anyway.

OPS+ of the last four seasons prior to Rose breaking Cobb's record and Ichiro getting his 3,000th hit:

Rose: 99, 69, 90, 118 for an average of 94

Ichiro: 57, 89, 77, 113 for an average of 84

No doubt Ichiro is/was a better complete player at the end of his career than Rose, but they were far more similar as hitters relative to their era than most of us think.

[Ohfan67]

p.s. I can't stand Rose as a person and would never enshrine him in the HOF. I'm not trying to be a Rose apologist, I just find the stats interesting.

[DrungoHazewood]

p.s. I can't stand Rose as a person and would never enshrine him in the HOF. I'm not trying to be a Rose apologist, I just find the stats interesting.

I get it, no problems, I'm sure the fact I'm not a Rose fan stands out in bold type. Rose was a very, very good player. But I find his narcissistic, self-promoting con man personality nauseating.

[DrungoHazewood]

OPS+ of the last four seasons prior to Rose breaking Cobb's record and Ichiro getting his 3,000th hit:

Rose: 99, 69, 90, 118 for an average of 94

Ichiro: 57, 89, 77, 113 for an average of 84

No doubt Ichiro is/was a better complete player at the end of his career than Rose, but they were far more similar as hitters relative to their era than most of us think.

Very similar production offensively, but shaped differently. The major difference was Rose was a starting first baseman by necessity while Ichiro could play defense and run.

[Ohfan67]

It was fun to take long looks at both of their stats. I hadn't really looked at Rose's stats in detail.

[DrungoHazewood]

It was fun to take long looks at both of their stats. I hadn't really looked at Rose's stats in detail.

Rose got an amazing amount out of his talent. He was David Eckstein hitting .325. He wasn't really fast, had little power, wasn't a natural at any defensive position, he was listed as 5' 11" but seems shorter. But he got 4000 hits in the major leagues. In 1979, at 38, he hit .331 with a K:BB ratio of 1:3. Almost too good to believe.

[Can_of_corn]

Rose got an amazing amount out of his talent. He was David Eckstein hitting .325. He wasn't really fast, had little power, wasn't a natural at any defensive position, he was listed as 5' 11" but seems shorter. But he got 4000 hits in the major leagues. In 1979, at 38, he hit .331 with a K:BB ratio of 1:3. Almost too good to believe.

Someone should pay him to write a book where he admits to using PEDs. That would cut his fervent fanbase in half.

[DrungoHazewood]

Someone should pay him to write a book where he admits to using PEDs. That would cut his fervent fanbase in half.

I'm more confident Rose knowingly used PEDs than Raffy. Isn't the most likely explanation of Rose's annoyingly hyperactive playing style industrial quantities of greenies? Since I don't like his personality that has to be true!

[Can_of_corn]

I'm more confident Rose knowingly used PEDs than Raffy. Isn't the most likely explanation of Rose's annoyingly hyperactive playing style industrial quantities of greenies? Since I don't like his personality that has to be true!

Who cares if he actually used?

I'm sure he'd admit to it if someone wrote a big enough check.

[Ohfan67]

I would be shocked if Rose wasn't a big amphetamine user during his playing days. I think steroids and many other PED's would have had a minimum impact because doing a dozen push ups a day doesn't really produce the desired results.