If we miss the playoffs this year, trade Manny and sign Schoop

[FlipTheBird]

For those in the "trade Manny" camp, I am curious to hear some deals. What players would you want back that another team would be willing to give up?

I guess if the Dodgers were willing to give up Corey Seager I would not hang up the phone but I don't see that happening. I would not give up two years of Manny for A. J. Reed.

There are certainly teams that could put together intriguing packages, I just don't view the Yankees are one of them given their current crop of players.

[webbrick2010]

Pretty much the truth there. It's too much for one player and the rest of the team suffers. Carl Crawford, Ryan Zimmerman, Josh Hamilton, Matt Kemp are others worth mentioning. I'd rather have four or five guys than

to put everything in one or two guys. I'd rather have the talent in my organization spread out and solid throughout as opposed to depending too much on one or two players at the expense of the rest of the team. The

object is to have the best TEAM because that's what wins championships; good TEAMS not average teams with a top five talent on it and yes, that TEAM includes depth in the minors. It amazes me how this seems to

escape so many people. Signing Manny to the type of contract that is disastrous almost every time historically and does not lead to championships for a team like the Orioles that is already playing the patchwork game

with no farm to speak of is a major disaster waiting to happen.

Can you guarantee me he won't get a severe injury in year four and never be the same guy again and never play another full season? Can you guarantee me he won't get hit with a pitch in the face or hand and never

be the same player again? Putting that kind of money into one player is pure insanity and the history of these contracts reflects that. The Davis contract is bad enough already. Learn from the mistakes of other teams

instead of being eager to roll right down the same path.

Thank You

Big contracts are almost always big disasters, yet GM's still sign them, and fans still clamor for them... and then complain about ticket prices

[weams]

Thank You

Big contracts are almost always big disasters, yet GM's still sign them, and fans still clamor for them... and then complain about ticket prices

Pretty accurate.

[Frobby]

For those in the "trade Manny" camp, I am curious to hear some deals. What players would you want back that another team would be willing to give up?.

Spitballing here: Manny to the Astros for Colin McHugh, Alex Bregman, Frances Martes and Kyle Tucker.

Bregman: #8 on BA's midseason top 100, now posting a .711 OPS for the Astros at 3B at age 22.

Martes: #29 on BA's list, RHP in AA.

Tucker: #35 on BA's list, no. 5 overall pick last year, now in high A at age 19 as a corner OF.

[Moondoggie]

Thank You

Big contracts are almost always big disasters, yet GM's still sign them, and fans still clamor for them... and then complain about ticket prices

The problem is that most of the disastrous big contracts are disastrous because they're signing guys in their 30s (because those are the guys who are free agents) and expecting them to keep performing at a high level. If you sign a guy who is 24 to a 7 to 10-year deal, they're still (barring injury) probably going to give you high level production through the length of the deal. It doesn't appear that Mike Trout's deal is going to be a disaster (but the Angels screwed the pooch by surrounding him with horrible contracts on older players such as Pujols and Hamilton). The Cubs extended Anthony Rizzo at age 23 and now they've got him for an absolute bargain until he's 32.

The Orioles should have been working on extending Manny last year rather than messing about with Chris Davis. By buying out his arbitration years, they could have been saving themselves a lot of money on the later years (still could, actually, if they'd just do it). Extending a young player and paying him through arbitration is a lot cheaper than paying the open market price. Manny is making $5 million this year. If the Orioles had taken the money they gave Davis and offered it to Manny over 8 years, there's no doubt in my mind he would have taken it. He'd have been guaranteed a big payday and still would have been young enough to get another big payday in free agency at age 31 for the 2024 season. But they're probably going to screw around until the last minute because they want to avoid paying him now.

[weams]

Spitballing here: Manny to the Astros for Colin McHugh, Alex Bregman, Frances Martes and Kyle Tucker.

Bregman: #8 on BA's midseason top 100, now posting a .711 OPS for the Astros at 3B at age 22.

Martes: #29 on BA's list, RHP in AA.

Tucker: #35 on BA's list, no. 5 overall pick last year, now in high A at age 19 as a corner OF.

That's close.

[MikeAD]

Spitballing here: Manny to the Astros for Colin McHugh, Alex Bregman, Frances Martes and Kyle Tucker.

Bregman: #8 on BA's midseason top 100, now posting a .711 OPS for the Astros at 3B at age 22.

Martes: #29 on BA's list, RHP in AA.

Tucker: #35 on BA's list, no. 5 overall pick last year, now in high A at age 19 as a corner OF.

I read this and looked up these players and the salary the Astros would be taking back with the intent of saying this in no way would work but wow, yeah that could work. However I am absolutely against trading him. We have never and may never again have a player this good, especially when the team was this close to being a yearly contender. I have compared before to Ripken's re-signing in 92 but we were no where close to contention at that point and it was very much about locking up a great player who meant a lot to the team. Manny is a top 5 player who will only get better and we have gone to or been very close to the playoffs for several seasons. There is no argument to make for trading him especially when we have found money to give to Davis and stop gap at best pitchers year after year. Let Manny Machado walk and the team is not a contender for another 10-15 years, this would be a major franchise blunder and would set the team back years. Sell the naming rights to the stadium, let someone build a condo in center field, do whatever it takes, you do not let Manny Machado leave the Baltimore Orioles.

[weams]

I read this and looked up these players and the salary the Astros would be taking back with the intent of saying this in no way would work but wow, yeah that could work. However I am absolutely against trading him. We have never and may never again have a player this good, especially when the team was this close to being a yearly contender. I have compared before to Ripken's re-signing in 92 but we were no where close to contention at that point and it was very much about locking up a great player who meant a lot to the team. Manny is a top 5 player who will only get better and we have gone to or been very close to the playoffs for several seasons. There is no argument to make for trading him especially when we have found money to give to Davis and stop gap at best pitchers year after year. Let Manny Machado walk and the team is not a contender for another 10-15 years, this would be a major franchise blunder and would set the team back years. Sell the naming rights to the stadium, let someone build a condo in center field, do whatever it takes, you do not let Manny Machado leave the Baltimore Orioles.

Naming rights pay for a relief pitcher.

[weams]

I read this and looked up these players and the salary the Astros would be taking back with the intent of saying this in no way would work but wow, yeah that could work. However I am absolutely against trading him. We have never and may never again have a player this good, especially when the team was this close to being a yearly contender. I have compared before to Ripken's re-signing in 92 but we were no where close to contention at that point and it was very much about locking up a great player who meant a lot to the team. Manny is a top 5 player who will only get better and we have gone to or been very close to the playoffs for several seasons. There is no argument to make for trading him especially when we have found money to give to Davis and stop gap at best pitchers year after year. Let Manny Machado walk and the team is not a contender for another 10-15 years, this would be a major franchise blunder and would set the team back years. Sell the naming rights to the stadium, let someone build a condo in center field, do whatever it takes, you do not let Manny Machado leave the Baltimore Orioles.

The Orioles do not have the ability to allow a condo built in center field.

[MikeAD]

The Orioles do not have the ability to allow a condo built in center field.

Yeah I am kidding, but I mean actually on the field, in the middle of Center Field. I'll take a team with Manny Machado and a 50 story building behind 2B than a team without Manny.

[Sessh]

The problem is that most of the disastrous big contracts are disastrous because they're signing guys in their 30s (because those are the guys who are free agents) and expecting them to keep performing at a high level. If you sign a guy who is 24 to a 7 to 10-year deal, they're still (barring injury) probably going to give you high level production through the length of the deal. It doesn't appear that Mike Trout's deal is going to be a disaster (but the Angels screwed the pooch by surrounding him with horrible contracts on older players such as Pujols and Hamilton). The Cubs extended Anthony Rizzo at age 23 and now they've got him for an absolute bargain until he's 32.

The Orioles should have been working on extending Manny last year rather than messing about with Chris Davis. By buying out his arbitration years, they could have been saving themselves a lot of money on the later years (still could, actually, if they'd just do it). Extending a young player and paying him through arbitration is a lot cheaper than paying the open market price. Manny is making $5 million this year. If the Orioles had taken the money they gave Davis and offered it to Manny over 8 years, there's no doubt in my mind he would have taken it. He'd have been guaranteed a big payday and still would have been young enough to get another big payday in free agency at age 31 for the 2024 season. But they're probably going to screw around until the last minute because they want to avoid paying him now.

You really can't see the difference between Rizzo's 7/41 / Trout's 6/144.5 and giving Manny 10 years at $400 million? Really? If we could sign Manny for either one of those contracts, I would do it. Manny is going to break

the bank and it will also break the Orioles' back. There is zero comparison between those contracts and what Manny is going to get. Manny will cost more than both those guys combined maybe even double that and he

has already had what, three major knee injuries? Maybe they are fixed permanently and maybe they're not. You're willing to bet $400 million on that? You would rather have Manny even if it means that team is ultimately

a fourth or fifth place team every year?

[FanSince88]

I didn't mean to imply that I was advocating trading anyone. I was just saying that if the Orioles were going to start trading off players to build for the future they would be smarter to trade the older guys, even if the perceived haul isn't as good. Manny IS the future. No way should they should deal away arguably the best player in baseball (at least one of the first handful) for guys who have not established themselves. It's just the sort of gamble that might get them another decade in the wilderness.

And I absolutely refuse to accept the excuse that they can't afford to extend Manny. Budgetary excuses went out the window for me when they outbid themselves for Chris Davis based on two monster half-seasons and two years of the inconsistency and frustration we've seen this year in between. If you can afford to throw $161 million at an over-30 slugger who is certain to give you diminishing returns, you can afford to pay $300 million for a decade of a likely (health permitting) Hall of Famer who has yet to reach what should be his prime years. If they use Chris Davis' contract as an excuse for not extending Manny, I will never forgive them.

a) Stanton got 13/325. The bidding for Manny in 2018 will start at 10/325, and it will not end there. You say trading Manny is a "gamble," but how is the insane contract he will get be anything other than a massive gamble on one player?

2) You know what got us a decade in the wilderness? Failing to trade Mussina when we had a chance. Instead he sauntered over to the Yanks and we were left with nothing.

[Can_of_corn]

a) Stanton got 13/325. The bidding for Manny in 2018 will start at 10/325, and it will not end there. You say trading Manny is a "gamble," but how is the insane contract he will get be anything other than a massive gamble on one player?

2) You know what got us a decade in the wilderness? Failing to trade Mussina when we had a chance. Instead he sauntered over to the Yanks and we were left with nothing.

Many factors were in play.

I don't know if a Bedard-like return could have saved the organization at that point in time.

[weams]

Many factors were in play.

I don't know if a Bedard-like return could have saved the organization at that point in time.

The Orioles were two seasons removed from wire to wire. Very simplistic idea to look from the rear view and say he should have been traded. Or that the Orioles would have acquired more than Juan Bell from the GM at that point. He was very full of himself and probably would have made a very foolish trade.

[CheeryO]

Name one decent starting pitcher DD has brought in since he struck "bronze" with Chen and Gonzo.

I can't, but like you pointed out he did bring in Chen and Gonzo.