MLBTR's Offseason Outlook: Orioles

[Can_of_corn]

Agree, trade the U to ATL for Nick.

You throwing in next year's competitive balance pick? Can you name a competitive balance pick as the PTBNL?

[oceanicvoyage]

Could you see the O's going back to the international well to fill a few spots? The Kim experiment got a little iffy, but seemed to worked out.

I thought I came up with this idea, but Camden Depot got there first.

Do you think the O's would take another chance here? Start out as utility guy and then find more at-bats for him if he succeeds.

[Horsepower]

Agree, trade the U to ATL for Nick.

Great idea,,,,,,I'd bring Nick home in a heartbeat

[VeveJones007]

Could you see the O's going back to the international well to fill a few spots? The Kim experiment got a little iffy, but seemed to worked out.

I thought I came up with this idea, but Camden Depot got there first.

Do you think the O's would take another chance here? Start out as utility guy and then find more at-bats for him if he succeeds.

.383 BABIP last year, but it is nice to see the HR totals spiking. I think a lot would depend on his defense.

[Frobby]

Deferred money mean very little until the club has to pay it to the player. Then it cuts into that year payroll.

Not to the extent you might think. Under the CBA, the team has to put most of the deferred money in escrow on July 1 of the second year after the obligation is incurred. I researched this during the discussion of Chris Davis' contract.

So for Ubaldo, his 2014 deferred comp is already in escrow (discounted according to CBA rules) and his 2015 deferred comp will go into escrow during the 2017 season.

[wildcard]

Not to the extent you might think. Under the CBA, the team has to put most of the deferred money in escrow on July 1 of the second year after the obligation is incurred. I researched this during the discussion of Chris Davis' contract.

So for Ubaldo, his 2014 deferred comp is already in escrow (discounted according to CBA rules) and his 2015 deferred comp will go into escrow during the 2017 season.

So help me understand this. Let's just look at Chris Davis contract. He has $6m deferred per year for 7 years. So the O's must put into escrow next July $42m. It will not start to be distributed to Davis until 2023. Up until it is distributed it is under the O's control. I would guess they can invest it and depending of the terms of Davis contract can keep the proceeds from the investments. It doesn't really affect payroll until it is distributed. Any thing I am missing here.

[AZRon]

Not to the extent you might think. Under the CBA, the team has to put most of the deferred money in escrow on July 1 of the second year after the obligation is incurred. I researched this during the discussion of Chris Davis' contract.

So for Ubaldo, his 2014 deferred comp is already in escrow (discounted according to CBA rules) and his 2015 deferred comp will go into escrow during the 2017 season.

So help me understand this. Let's just look at Chris Davis contract. He has $6m deferred per year for 7 years. So the O's must put into escrow next July $42m. It will not start to be distributed to Davis until 2023. Up until it is distributed it is under the O's control. I would guess they can invest it and depending of the terms of Davis contract can keep the proceeds from the investments. It doesn't really affect payroll until it is distributed. Any thing I am missing here.

The facts might be helpful here. Here are the salient paragraphs from the current CBA:

...Deferred compensation obligations incurred in a Contract

executed on or after September 30, 2002 must be fully funded by the

Club, in an amount equal to the present value of the total deferred compensation

obligation, on or before the second July 1 following the

championship season in which the deferred compensation is earned.

For purposes of this Article XVI, full funding of the present value of

deferred compensation obligations shall mean that the Club must have

funded, for the duration of and without interruption in each year, the

current present value of the then outstanding deferred payments, discounted

by 5% annually. If the prime interest rate in effect at The J.P.

Morgan Chase Bank on the immediately preceding November 1 is 7%

or higher, the Parties shall meet and confer regarding this Article XVI

discount rate and may, with due notice to the Clubs, amend such discount

rate effective the next succeeding July 1.

...a Club may fund deferred compensation obligations in such manner as it elects,

provided that: (a) the funding method used by the Club must be such

that the amount(s) funded are exclusively for the uses and purposes of

satisfying the deferred compensation obligation(s) being funded; (b)

the amount(s) funded are maintained in the form of unencumbered

assets comprising cash or cash equivalents and/or registered and unrestricted

readily marketable securities, unless a Club obtains the Parties’

prior written authorization of an alternative form; and © such

amount(s) funded are subject to the claims of the Club’s general creditors.

Each Club shall certify quarterly to the Office of the Commissioner by January 31,

April 30, July 31, and October 31 of each year

(and the Office of the Commissioner shall provide such certifications

to the Association within 30 days of their receipt) the manner in which

its deferred compensation obligations that were required to be funded

by the immediately preceding July 1 have been funded. In addition,

upon each quarterly certification, each Club shall provide to the Office

of the Commissioner all records relating to its deferred compensation

funding arrangements, and the Office of the Commissioner shall supply

any such records to the Association upon request.

[wildcard]

The facts might be helpful here. Here are the salient paragraphs from the current CBA:

...Deferred compensation obligations incurred in a Contract

executed on or after September 30, 2002 must be fully funded by the

Club, in an amount equal to the present value of the total deferred compensation

obligation, on or before the second July 1 following the

championship season in which the deferred compensation is earned.

For purposes of this Article XVI, full funding of the present value of

deferred compensation obligations shall mean that the Club must have

funded, for the duration of and without interruption in each year, the

current present value of the then outstanding deferred payments, discounted

by 5% annually. If the prime interest rate in effect at The J.P.

Morgan Chase Bank on the immediately preceding November 1 is 7%

or higher, the Parties shall meet and confer regarding this Article XVI

discount rate and may, with due notice to the Clubs, amend such discount

rate effective the next succeeding July 1.

...a Club may fund deferred compensation obligations in such manner as it elects,

provided that: (a) the funding method used by the Club must be such

that the amount(s) funded are exclusively for the uses and purposes of

satisfying the deferred compensation obligation(s) being funded; (b)

the amount(s) funded are maintained in the form of unencumbered

assets comprising cash or cash equivalents and/or registered and unrestricted

readily marketable securities, unless a Club obtains the Parties?

prior written authorization of an alternative form; and © such

amount(s) funded are subject to the claims of the Club?s general creditors.

Each Club shall certify quarterly to the Office of the Commissioner by January 31,

April 30, July 31, and October 31 of each year

(and the Office of the Commissioner shall provide such certifications

to the Association within 30 days of their receipt) the manner in which

its deferred compensation obligations that were required to be funded

by the immediately preceding July 1 have been funded. In addition,

upon each quarterly certification, each Club shall provide to the Office

of the Commissioner all records relating to its deferred compensation

funding arrangements, and the Office of the Commissioner shall supply

any such records to the Association upon request.

So it seems that the deferred amount is ecrowed annual. "on or before the second July 1 following the

championship season in which the deferred compensation is earned." The deferral in now earned until the player plays that season is the way I read it.

[MDtransplant757]

Great idea,,,,,,I'd bring Nick home in a heartbeat

I've been saying this for a while now

[AZRon]

So it seems that the deferred amount is ecrowed annual. "on or before the second July 1 following the

championship season in which the deferred compensation is earned." The deferral in now earned until the player plays that season is the way I read it.

Here's how I understand it:

As of right now, the O's have set aside any unpaid deferred salary owed through the 2014 season

By July 1st of 2017, they will have to add (less about 5%) to that fund the deferred amounts owed to any players from the 2015 contract year

[wildcard]

Here's how I understand it:

As of right now, the O's have set aside any unpaid deferred salary owed through the 2014 season

By July 1st of 2017, they will have to add (less about 5%) to that fund the deferred amounts owed to any players from the 2015 contract year

I'm not sure about that. The word "earned" holds a lot of meaning here. Is the money earned two July's after the contract is signed or is it earned on an annual basis?

[weams]

So help me understand this. Let's just look at Chris Davis contract. He has $6m deferred per year for 7 years. So the O's must put into escrow next July $42m. It will not start to be distributed to Davis until 2023. Up until it is distributed it is under the O's control. I would guess they can invest it and depending of the terms of Davis contract can keep the proceeds from the investments. It doesn't really affect payroll until it is distributed. Any thing I am missing here.

You getting two percent return on that nestegg of yours? It affects payroll the minute it is reserved. You can't spend it twice.

[weams]

Here's how I understand it:

As of right now, the O's have set aside any unpaid deferred salary owed through the 2014 season

By July 1st of 2017, they will have to add (less about 5%) to that fund the deferred amounts owed to any players from the 2015 contract year

Of course you are accurate. Thanks for making it simple.