More Pitching

[thezeroes]

1 hour ago, Rene88 said:

So all young pitchers are the same? Tyler throws electric stuff in the mid to upper-nineties? Had no idea, thanks.

No, I did not say ALL young pitchers are the same.  I was just pointing out that you seem confused as to what is deemed a proper amount of time for "Young" pitchers to apply their stuff at the MLB Level.  Jake Arrieta started 63 games for Baltimore and appeared in 69 Games and now in hindsight you think he should of been kept while Tyler Wilson has appeared in 33 games with 18 starts.  You think a pitcher that amassed a 1.472 WHIP is better than one that has amassed a 1.415 WHIP.  You think that a 4.78 ERA is worse than a 5.46 ERA.  I suppose that in their heyday, while here, you preferred Daniel Cabrera to Jeremy Guthrie.  To each their own I guess.

[Rene88]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I disagree with your assessment.   Were we competing for last place last year with the same staff?     I think it's reasonable to expect growth from Bundy and for one of Ubaldo/Gallardo/Miley to bounce back.    Once we got Wright and Wilson out of the rotation, the starters did pretty well in the second half.    

To me, it's all about how we reconstruct RF/DH, now that we know what's happening at C.

You mean the Bundy that Weams just said isn't a lock for the rotation in another thread?:)

You can disagree all you want, doesn't make you right either. I said it was a mistake to let Cruz walk and it will end up costing us, people said that was nonsense. I told people why LaCava turned down the GM job and said it shows Angelos still isn't out of the picture (he signed Davis over DD). I can be wrong but connected enough to what's going on.

This team is an injury or two in the SP staff from a "blow it up" scenario. I guess we will see how the offseason plays out. 

Davis needs protection, agreed, but much less important than our SP staff. 

 

 

[sportsfan8703]

6 hours ago, Rene88 said:

A lot of stuff differently:)

Right now? Man, I wouldn't have signed Gallardo or traded for Miley, that's for sure. But it is what it is.

I would do whatever I could to get rid of Ubaldo, highly unlikely. Same with both Gallardo and or Miley. Get rid of the one with the highest offer, used other 2 as innings eaters and trade away Britton for a haul of young starting pitching talent. Make Brach and/or Joe Jordan's SS of the future, the closer. We will still be competitive. One of those prospects have to be AA or AAA and we plug them in mid-season.

Heck, if we can get a good SP prospect with Grandy for Brach, I would do that and make O'day or Givens the closer and I still think we will be competitive.

I would sadly talk to the Nats about Gio Gonzalez. He might be okay in the AL East for 1 year. Pickings are slim, that's why don't give up on the Jake Arietta's of the world but I digress...

I need to comb over the list of SP available, but I know the list is thin. I would have gone after Dickey, was disappointed he signed with Braves so quickly.

 

Lots of revisionist history here.  You wouldn't sign Gallardo or trade for Miley.  We made the playoffs with both of them on the roster and if either one of them pitches to expectations then we probably win the division.  Then you bring up Jake Arrieta, he was never going to get it together in the AL East.  It's all about confidence.  He didn't have it here.  

Gio Gonzalez isn't "ok" in the NL East.  He's a bum.  Point blank.  

Granderson isn't worth Brach.  We could just sign Rasmus or Pagan for half the contract and keep Brach.  I don't care what prospect you're bringing back.  

There is no rotation in the AL East that is "comfortable" other than the Red Sox.  Should've, Would've, Could've. c Let's see how their 4 LH's play up over the course of a season.  

We have the best bullpen.

This team is real close, and is definitely closer than the NATS.   

[Redskins Rick]

15 hours ago, Rene88 said:

We can get in without Britton, so you reload for young starting pitching prospects now if you care about the long-term competitiveness of the franchise, that's why.

And despite the OH spreading the fallacy that anyone can win the WS if you just get in, starting pitching is a large part of that formula that this team greatly lacks. Is it possible to win with poor starting pitching? Sure. I guess, anything is possible, just look at the events of 2016, but highly unlikely and not a formula for long-term sustainability.

Yet, look at 2014, and they went to the ALDS, without MW and Manny, and even Chris Davis for 50 games.

It is not fallacy, that a Wildcard winner can win the WS, its been done as recently as 2011 and 2014.

[Rene88]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

Yet, look at 2014, and they went to the ALDS, without MW and Manny, and even Chris Davis for 50 games.

It is not fallacy, that a Wildcard winner can win the WS, its been done as recently as 2011 and 2014.

And bigots can be elected president, anything is possible these days but odds are against you.

[Redskins Rick]

twice in 6 years is pretty good odds.

[Rene88]

4 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

twice in 6 years is pretty good odds.

6 years?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/how-many-mlb-wild-card-teams-have-won-the-world-series.html/?a=viewall

I will look up the starting staff of these teams...I be they weren't compiled of Ubaldo and Gallardo.

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

6 years?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/how-many-mlb-wild-card-teams-have-won-the-world-series.html/?a=viewall

I will look up the starting staff of these teams...I be they weren't compiled of Ubaldo and Gallardo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_wild_card

 

2011 - St Louis Cards

2014 - San Francisco Giants

Also,

2016 - Toronto Blue Jays went to ALCS.

So it was pretty close to 3 times in 6 years, which is 50%

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, Rene88 said:

You mean the Bundy that Weams just said isn't a lock for the rotation in another thread?:)

You can disagree all you want, doesn't make you right either.

 

 

It's a matter of opinion.    We won't know whose opinion was correct until next season plays out.    But I've given you my reasons why I think our starting rotation will be better in 2017 than it was in 2016.

[FlipTheBird]

I agree with the general assessment that the O's aren't going to add a starting pitcher. I'd wager that, on paper they're looking at Tillman-Gausman-Bundy-Miley-Gallardo, with Jimenez being used if required.

[Dark Helmet]

15 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

6 years?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/how-many-mlb-wild-card-teams-have-won-the-world-series.html/?a=viewall

I will look up the starting staff of these teams...I be they weren't compiled of Ubaldo and Gallardo.

Maybe you would have better luck and less frustration just rooting for the Nats only then...just an option. 

[Rene88]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_wild_card

 

2011 - St Louis Cards

2014 - San Francisco Giants

Also,

2016 - Toronto Blue Jays went to ALCS.

So it was pretty close to 3 times in 6 years, which is 50%

Great starting pitching with the exception of Toronto is my guess without looking it up.

[Redskins Rick]

12 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

Great starting pitching with the exception of Toronto is my guess without looking it up.

I did look it up, and both 2011 and 2014, had good starting pitching, but neither would be what I would consider Great.

San Fran did have Bumgarner, who was very good 18-10, but they also had 2 also SP, with sub .500 records and 13 loses a piece.

Cards have a 11-9. 13-7, 14-8 and 12-9. Not exactly stellar, but good.

[Rene88]

4 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I did look it up, and both 2011 and 2014, had good starting pitching, but neither would be what I would consider Great.

San Fran did have Bumgarner, who was very good 18-10, but they also had 2 also SP, with sub .500 records and 13 loses a piece.

Cards have a 11-9. 13-7, 14-8 and 12-9. Not exactly stellar, but good.

Thank you sir. Agree to disagree. I don't think the way the SP staff is currently assembled we can get to the WS. That is my opinion. I think if we have an injury to Tillman, Gausman or Bundy the wheels fall off very rapidly.

I am pulling for your Skins though. I went to the Packers game and that was fun, very cold out there!

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

Great starting pitching with the exception of Toronto is my guess without looking it up.

 

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I did look it up, and both 2011 and 2014, had good starting pitching, but neither would be what I would consider Great.

San Fran did have Bumgarner, who was very good 18-10, but they also had 2 also SP, with sub .500 records and 13 loses a piece.

Cards have a 11-9. 13-7, 14-8 and 12-9. Not exactly stellar, but good.

2011: Cardinals starters were 8th in the NL in ERA.

2014: Giants' starters were 10th in the NL in ERA.