Givens

[joe42]

Is it posible that Givens could follow the same path as Bundy did last season? Or, is he our future closer? Or, he he used the way that Andrew Miller was used last year in Cleveland?

[sportsfan8703]

He's cheap and controllable for 5 more years.  Ton of value there.  

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, joe42 said:

Is it posible that Givens could follow the same path as Bundy did last season? Or, is he our future closer? Or, he he used the way that Andrew Miller was used last year in Cleveland?

Givens is a relief pitcher.  If he can improve against left handed batters he can be an elite one.

[joe42]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Givens is a relief pitcher.  If he can improve against left handed batters he can be an elite one.

No chance for the Bundy path then? And I kinda considered him already elite.

[MDtransplant757]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Givens is a relief pitcher.  If he can improve against left handed batters he can be an elite one.

If givens can improve on LHB and Hart can improve on RHB, we'll have the best BP in baseball

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, joe42 said:

No chance for the Bundy path then? And I kinda considered him already elite.

Left handed hitters had a 1025 OPS against him last year.

When he was drafted the question was SS or RP not SS or SP.  And that was back in '09.

[PaulFolk]

1 minute ago, joe42 said:

No chance for the Bundy path then? And I kinda considered him already elite.

Givens isn't and will never be a starter.

[joe42]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Left handed hitters had a 1025 OPS against him last year.

Wow ! I did not know that.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, joe42 said:

Wow ! I did not know that.

Obviously some of that was bad luck, but yea, it was ugly.

[Frobby]

Givens was much better vs. LHP in 2015, and I feel he'll figure out how to address the problems he had in 2016.    I know that as of June 24, lefties had a 1.221 OPS against him, so obviously he did to quite a bit better against them after that.   I seem to recall hearing some discussion of him using his change-up more vs. lefties as the season progressed.   

[Just Regular]

I would actually enjoy seeing him start occasionally, provided opponent's lineup is all righties up top.

One of the other Andrew Miller maximization type strategies that no one has really done yet is a planned 1 IP start by a Givens-type ROOGY.  The theory goes:

-offenses score more in the 1st because that's the one time the lineup is guaranteed optimized

-relievers are better than starters on a per inning basis.

I would argue something like Miley, Givens and the Blue Jays (Travis/Donaldson/Bautista), Red Sox (Pedroia/Bogaerts/Betts) or Tigers (Kinsler, JD Martinez, Miggy) is a perfect storm for this.

It's basically just switching your 6th/7th guy to the 1st if you can lock in your platoon edges there.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

I would actually enjoy seeing him start occasionally, provided opponent's lineup is all righties up top.

One of the other Andrew Miller maximization type strategies that no one has really done yet is a planned 1 IP start by a Givens-type ROOGY.  The theory goes:

-offenses score more in the 1st because that's the one time the lineup is guaranteed optimized

-relievers are better than starters on a per inning basis.

I would argue something like Miley, Givens and the Blue Jays (Travis/Donaldson/Bautista), Red Sox (Pedroia/Bogaerts/Betts) or Tigers (Kinsler, JD Martinez, Miggy) is a perfect storm for this.

It's basically just switching your 6th/7th guy to the 1st if you can lock in your platoon edges there.

I've suggested the same thing myself.

Someone, probably Maddon or a future Maddon disciple, will try it one day.

[monarchO]

7 hours ago, joe42 said:

Is it posible that Givens could follow the same path as Bundy did last season? Or, is he our future closer? Or, he he used the way that Andrew Miller was used last year in Cleveland?

The only reason Bundy was in the pen was to build up armstrength. here is no comp besides both are very good pitchers and both were rookies. Givens was very good last year and expect he will be even better this year.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, monarchO said:

The only reason Bundy was in the pen was to build up armstrength. here is no comp besides both are very good pitchers and both were rookies. Givens was very good last year and expect he will be even better this year.

Manage his innings.

And they really had little idea what they had with him at this point.

[VeveJones007]

11 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

I would actually enjoy seeing him start occasionally, provided opponent's lineup is all righties up top.

One of the other Andrew Miller maximization type strategies that no one has really done yet is a planned 1 IP start by a Givens-type ROOGY.  The theory goes:

-offenses score more in the 1st because that's the one time the lineup is guaranteed optimized

-relievers are better than starters on a per inning basis.

I would argue something like Miley, Givens and the Blue Jays (Travis/Donaldson/Bautista), Red Sox (Pedroia/Bogaerts/Betts) or Tigers (Kinsler, JD Martinez, Miggy) is a perfect storm for this.

It's basically just switching your 6th/7th guy to the 1st if you can lock in your platoon edges there.

Depends on a lot of other factors. Unlikely that the opponent would pinch hit one of their top 3 hitters late in the game, so may be more valuable to shut them down in innings 6-9. Depends on the quality of your starter and how important getting the lead is.