How much was the O's pitching to blame for Wieters poor pitch framing?

[Frobby]

19 hours ago, Dark Helmet said:

I ask, because I don't know what they use or how they judge this. Bill Ripken just basically said you can't frame pitches if you have guys that can't throw strikes consistently. 

 

16 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

He's wrong.

Ripken's statement is obviously too broad, but it seems to me that (1) pitchers get the borderline calls more often when they throw right to the catcher's glove, and (2) they get the calls more often when they have a reputation for throwing strikes.    For both reasons, I would expect Greg Maddux to get more borderline strike calls than Daniel Cabrera.   I don't know if that topic has actually been researched.   

Mind you, I'm not saying this has anything to do with Matt Wieters' framing stats.    I'm just making a general point that I do think the command of the pitcher can influence how balls and strikes get called.

[Sanfran327]

2 hours ago, ArtVanDelay said:

But all pitchers do that.  Do O's pitchers throw less framable pitches than other staffs?  Maybe when Ubaldo is pitching. 

This would be difficult to prove, but I think we probably fit that description. Lots of starting pitchers that are probably somewhat "effectively wild", I think. That would make them more difficult to frame. And all of the foul balls that we talk about that might end up as chances to frame (close pitches, after all). 

For my money, this is why pitch framing is an superfluous stat. I don't think it has enough context to be effective.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, ArtVanDelay said:

But all pitchers do that.  Do O's pitchers throw less framable pitches than other staffs?  Maybe when Ubaldo is pitching. 

Maybe, but the head to head framing numbers show that it is not just the pitchers, otherwise Wieters and Joseph would perform the same, but Joseph is clearly better.

[Dark Helmet]

4 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

He's wrong.

 

I'll agree the methodology isn't exact, but no amount of tweaking will improve Wieter's numbers in that regard. He's the one who needs to make changes.

Foul tips? Not exactly a hot commodity in the catching market.

Might not be a hot commodity, but it's underrated. 

 

[Il BuonO]

20 hours ago, Dark Helmet said:

Might not be a hot commodity, but it's underrated. 

 

Maybe, but you won't see catchers signed to a contract because of it.