Which O's prospects helped themselves the most in ST?

[ChuckS]

I've yet to hear any actual reports on Mancini's defense.  You would think the team has to be encouraged to be willing to throw him in RF on a semi-regular basis already. 

But then again, if he is so capable it's a head scratcher why he wasn't given a chance to play out there before.  And why Christian Walker (who isn't good out there) was seen as an easier convert last year when they were both clearly blocked at the major league level.  

[ChuckS]

Best case scenario, Mancini is adequate out there and a long term solution in RF.  Looking to the future, you would probably need a plus defender in left to feel good about the OF defense.  

[tntoriole]

8 hours ago, ChuckS said:

I've yet to hear any actual reports on Mancini's defense.  You would think the team has to be encouraged to be willing to throw him in RF on a semi-regular basis already. 

But then again, if he is so capable it's a head scratcher why he wasn't given a chance to play out there before.  And why Christian Walker (who isn't good out there) was seen as an easier convert last year when they were both clearly blocked at the major league level.  

If the Orioles leadership had just read the OH last year, they would have seen a number of us advocating for Buck's position- that Mancini to be converted to the outfield before Walker was given that shot.  Trey will have some ups and downs, but he is a very intelligent young man out of Notre Dame who works very hard at his craft and I think that he will become a more than adequate right fielder which would be better than what we have had out there since Nick left and that his bat is going to be a weapon. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

If the Orioles leadership had just read the OH last year, they would have seen a number of us advocating for Buck's position- that Mancini to be converted to the outfield before Walker was given that shot.  Trey will have some ups and downs, but he is a very intelligent young man out of Notre Dame who works very hard at his craft and I think that he will become a more than adequate right fielder which would be better than what we have had out there since Nick left and that his bat is going to be a weapon. 

I don't think any of us are worried about him handling the intellectual challenges of playing the outfield. 

[George Zuverink]

15 hours ago, wildcard said:

The projection last year was that Mancini was to replace Pedro Alvarez at DH and the O's probably couldn't afford to  re-signing Trumbo.

I'm still curious about who, specifically, made that call, Buck or DD. It sounds like Buck went public saying  it was a mistake, so I wonder whether that was another "I should have brought in Zach" moment or a message pitch to Dan. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, George Zuverink said:

I'm still curious about who, specifically, made that call, Buck or DD. It sounds like Buck went public saying  it was a mistake, so I wonder whether that was another "I should have brought in Zach" moment or a message pitch to Dan. 

Why would Buck make that call?

It makes no sense at all for the ML manager to make decisions like that.

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think any of us are worried about him handling the intellectual challenges of playing the outfield. 

Intelligence is highly underrated as an asset in the game, imho.  Planning skills , processing complex instruction and translating it into personal change, recall of previous events including hitters/tendencies,  visualization of outcomes and rapid anticipation of future events, ability to compartmentalize different activities from each other,  all have strong correlation with intelligence as cognitive functions that affect outcomes even in seemingly strictly physical tasks, like playing the outfield at the major league level.     But running fast, seeing the ball, jumping, catching, throwing are good to have too...lol. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

Intelligence is highly underrated as an asset in the game, imho.  Planning skills , processing complex instruction and translating it into personal change, recall of previous events including hitters/tendencies,  visualization of outcomes and rapid anticipation of future events, ability to compartmentalize different activities from each other,  all have strong correlation with intelligence as cognitive functions that affect outcomes even in seemingly strictly physical tasks, like playing the outfield at the major league level.     But running fast, seeing the ball, jumping, catching, throwing are good to have too...lol. 

Sure, but that stuff plays more into something like catching than it does the corner outfield.

I'm much more concerned that he played first base at Notre Dame than I am with his transcripts.  If he wasn't even athletic enough to play somewhere other than first in college it doesn't bode well for his future success in the majors.  I think folks just assume that you can throw anyone out in left or right field and it will be OK.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Agreed that its not his call but Buck has influence over the entire operation so its fair to ask if he suggested it at the time.

Suggested sure.  It wouldn't be out of place for Buck to voice an opinion on the matter.

[tntoriole]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, but that stuff plays more into something like catching than it does the corner outfield.

I'm much more concerned that he played first base at Notre Dame than I am with his transcripts.  If he wasn't even athletic enough to play somewhere other than first in college it doesn't bode well for his future success in the majors.  I think folks just assume that you can throw anyone out in left or right field and it will be OK.

Folks like Buck and anyone like Trumbo, for example.    We shall see.  You assume that he played first at Notre Dame only because he was not "athletic" enough to play in the outfield,  but we shall see.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, tntoriole said:

Folks like Buck and anyone like Trumbo, for example.    We shall see.  You assume that he played first at Notre Dame only because he was not "athletic" enough to play in the outfield,  but we shall see.  

If he was capable of playing elsewhere why would they put him at first?  Are the coaches at Notre Dame stupid?  I highly doubt he was blocked by superior players.

As a general guideline you put guys at the position with the highest defense value that they can play.

You will also notice that the O's never tried him in the outfield before now.  If they thought he could play the outfield why didn't they try a position change when they drafted him?

As for all the folks that say he can't be worse than Trumbo, well Trumbo is a better first baseman than Mancini and he at least played outfield (and a touch of third base) in the minors.

I don't see any reason to expect Mancini to be better than Trumbo.

 

(I have seen interviews with Trumbo and he seems like a bright guy so I'm not sure Mancini's educational advantage will be a big deal.)

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If he was capable of playing elsewhere why would they put him at first?  Are the coaches at Notre Dame stupid?  I highly doubt he was blocked by superior players.

As a general guideline you put guys at the position with the highest defense value that they can play.

You will also notice that the O's never tried him in the outfield before now.  If they thought he could play the outfield why didn't they try a position change when they drafted him?

As for all the folks that say he can't be worse than Trumbo, well Trumbo is a better first baseman than Mancini and he at least played outfield (and a touch of third base) in the minors.

I don't see any reason to expect Mancini to be better than Trumbo.

 

(I have seen interviews with Trumbo and he seems like a bright guy so I'm not sure Mancini's educational advantage will be a big deal.)

The kid played first all through high school and then continued to play it at Notre Dame.  He probably stayed at first because he played it pretty well and had a big bat in college too.   He wasn't "blocked"- he was just the best first baseman on the Notre Dame squad.   Your question as to why the Orioles never tried him in the outfield before now is one that Buck would apparently like to know too.   Perhaps because many experts in the organization did not then see him as a viable major league option, or maybe, if he was thought about as a first base option,  they thought that it was protection if Davis would not re-sign or that Trumbo wouldn't come here or come back, etc.   Saying that Trumbo played outfield is generous.   Perhaps Mancini will turn out to be a terrible outfielder and just a temporary bench bat who will then become a perpetual AAAA type, but I think he will be better than the experts have proclaimed.  Primarily because I want to see his Mom out there every night cheering at Camden Yards....lol. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

As usual COC has sound reasoning. Still doesn't mean he's right. I am hoping that Mancini is better than Trumbo in RF and close to average.  We will see.  Buck's comments, the strange but positive comment from Fangraphs reporter, and my own optimism give me hope.

I agree that it's possible that Mancini will be as good or better.

Just that folks shouldn't go in expecting it.

[thezeroes]

If you timeline Mancini in 2016 and follow the Orioles timeline the reasoning to keep him at first base is there for those that want to ponder all that goes into team (Minors and Majors) makeup and roster placement.

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, Ruzious said:

No, you're misunderstanding, and they were together in AAA last year.  If anyone chose Walker to play OF because they thought the one who could play OF would have a better chance to go and stay in Baltimore, there's an issue.    

Mancini started the year in AA.    Walker already had a full year of AAA under his belt before the season started.   I don't think anyone would have thought Walker had more upside than Mancini, but at the beginning of the year, he might have been considered more major league ready.    They also may have thought he had better tools for making the switch to OF.    It sounds as though that judgment may have been off base.   I'll reserve judgment.     Buck has been pretty encouraging about Mancini's outfield work, but he didn't look too good in the two games I saw him play in Sarasota (which were his first two games in the OF, so I'll cut him some slack).