Mediocre Teams in Camden Yards

[Carllamy]

As Monday starts the Camden Yards 25th Anniversary, I thought it would be a hoot to look through the Opening Day lineups and put together a Camden Yards Opening Day all-bad team. While it is possible to do (see below) the one thing that jumped out at me was that, during their tenure at Camden Yards, the O's really haven't fielded (at least in terms of Opening Day starters) a lot of truly bad players/lineups. There have been some, but I compared lineups with some from before Camden Yards, and was surprised.

It isn't that these teams were bad, per se, at least in my opinion. The problem was, many were just really, really mediocre. I picked one at random, the 1999 team. The Opening Day Lineup was:

Charles Johnson - C, Will Clark -1B, Jeff Reboulet - 2B, Cal Ripken - 3B, Mike Bordick - SS, B.J. Surhoff, Brady Anderson and Albert Belle - OF, an ageing Jeff Conine - DH and Mike Mussina  - P.

Really, when you look at that team, there aren't really any awful players (I assume Jeff Reboulet was in for injury, like Ryan Flaherty in 2014 and 2015 starting lineups? I don't remember). And, there are some good players. But it just wasn't a team that was ever going to be good. Nor was it gong to be awful. It was always going to be mediocre unless several guys played at the absolute top of their games. Which didn't happen. They won 78 games. Which should have been, and really was, predictable. And while this team, as a random example of the teams that have started in Camden Yards wasn't good, compared to some of the lineups at looked at pre-Camden Yards (see 1988) it wasn't really embarrassingly bad.

My point is, Camden Yards has marked sort of a long-term resurgence for the Orioles. The teams have gone from plain bad pre-Camden Yards, to no worse than mediocre and actually good during the Camden Yards years.  And that was a surprise to me. I had it in my head that some of the Camden Yards teams were just awful. There's no doubt that some were simply not good, but I don't think any were actually bad. That said, my all-bad Camden Yards Opening Day lineup:

C - Gernimo Gil (It would have been Brook Fordyce, but I think he stated because of injury? just like Gregg Zaun, so I'm ruling him out)

1B - Kevin Millar

2B - It's a tie: Bret Barberie and Mark McLemore

3B - Chris Sabo

SS - Cesar Izturis

OF - Felix Pie, Andy Van Slyke, Sammy Sosa

DH - Joe Carter

P - Pat Hentgan *********** We have a winner. In my book, the most embarrassingly bad Opening Day player in Camden Yards history

[Spy Fox]

The most frequent reason the 2000s teams were so terrible was because of horrible pitching. Since the best pitcher usually goes on Opening Day, I'm not surprised the Opening Day lineups themselves would look a bit better than the team ended up being. But there were still certainly plenty of pretty bad starting position players over the years! 

Based on your picks I'm guessing you're measuring it by how bad the player was in the particular season they started on Opening Day. My amendment off the top of my head is that the 1b spot absolutely must go to Garrett Atkins. Millar was actually decent for us. 

[sportsfan8703]

Pat Hentgen was poised to have a good year for us until he need TJ.  Millwood or Bud Norris are probably our two worst OD starters.  

[Carllamy]

I went to baseball reference for the opening day lineups.

You are correct. Garrett Atkins started at 1B for us in 2010. I must have blotted that out of my mind. He immediately takes place as my worst Camden Yards era opening day first basemen, easily displacing Kevin Millar.

Bud Norris, according to Baseball Reference, was not an opening day starter (maybe he started opening day at Camden Yards some year we started on the road? I don't know). According to them, the opening day starters for the O's since 1992 have been:

Sutcliff, Sutcliff, Mussina, Mussina, Mussina, Jimmy Key, Mussina, Mussina, Mussina, Pat Hentgen, Scott Erickson, Rodrigo Lopez, Ponson, Lopez, Lopez, Bedard, Guthrie, Guthrie, Millwood, Guthrie, Arrietta, Hammel, Tillman, Tillman, and Tillman.

[TommyPickles]

Can't believe Felix Pie made an opening day lineup.  When was that?

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Can't believe Felix Pie made an opening day lineup.  When was that?

 

 

He was one of Andy's favorites.  I remember being annoyed that Pie was kept over Reimold since he was out of options.

I also remember Pie hitting for the cycle and the resulting meltdown on the board.

[Carllamy]

Felix Pie. Opening Day outfielder for the Baltimore Orioles, 2010.

 

Other Opening Day starters of note during the Camden Yards era:

Tony Tarasco, 1996

Delino DeShields, 2000

Deivi Cruz, 2003

Paul Bako, 2007

Corey Patterson, 2007

BTW, Cesar Izturis started 2 years in a row, 2008 and 2009

David Segui started as a 1B in 2001, and as DH in 2002

[tntoriole]

8 hours ago, Carllamy said:

As Monday starts the Camden Yards 25th Anniversary, I thought it would be a hoot to look through the Opening Day lineups and put together a Camden Yards Opening Day all-bad team. While it is possible to do (see below) the one thing that jumped out at me was that, during their tenure at Camden Yards, the O's really haven't fielded (at least in terms of Opening Day starters) a lot of truly bad players/lineups. There have been some, but I compared lineups with some from before Camden Yards, and was surprised.

It isn't that these teams were bad, per se, at least in my opinion. The problem was, many were just really, really mediocre. I picked one at random, the 1999 team. The Opening Day Lineup was:

Charles Johnson - C, Will Clark -1B, Jeff Reboulet - 2B, Cal Ripken - 3B, Mike Bordick - SS, B.J. Surhoff, Brady Anderson and Albert Belle - OF, an ageing Jeff Conine - DH and Mike Mussina  - P.

Really, when you look at that team, there aren't really any awful players (I assume Jeff Reboulet was in for injury, like Ryan Flaherty in 2014 and 2015 starting lineups? I don't remember). And, there are some good players. But it just wasn't a team that was ever going to be good. Nor was it gong to be awful. It was always going to be mediocre unless several guys played at the absolute top of their games. Which didn't happen. They won 78 games. Which should have been, and really was, predictable. And while this team, as a random example of the teams that have started in Camden Yards wasn't good, compared to some of the lineups at looked at pre-Camden Yards (see 1988) it wasn't really embarrassingly bad.

My point is, Camden Yards has marked sort of a long-term resurgence for the Orioles. The teams have gone from plain bad pre-Camden Yards, to no worse than mediocre and actually good during the Camden Yards years.  And that was a surprise to me. I had it in my head that some of the Camden Yards teams were just awful. There's no doubt that some were simply not good, but I don't think any were actually bad. That said, my all-bad Camden Yards Opening Day lineup:

C - Gernimo Gil (It would have been Brook Fordyce, but I think he stated because of injury? just like Gregg Zaun, so I'm ruling him out)

1B - Kevin Millar

2B - It's a tie: Bret Barberie and Mark McLemore

3B - Chris Sabo

SS - Cesar Izturis

OF - Felix Pie, Andy Van Slyke, Sammy Sosa

DH - Joe Carter

P - Pat Hentgan *********** We have a winner. In my book, the most embarrassingly bad Opening Day player in Camden Yards history

I agree with some of the ideas you outline.  However, I believe that the quality (or lack thereof) of Orioles teams through the years has more often been correlated with the leadership-usually the GM and the decisions made by those individuals.  Often the choices made by previous GMs then led to real downturns years after they had left the organization.    I think it has little to do with teams being "plain bad pre- Camden Yards" and then somehow improved after moving to Camden Yards.   Because, of course, some if not the best Orioles teams ever were at Memorial Stadium in the 1960s and 1970s and even into the 1980s.  

[PaulFolk]

On 4/1/2017 at 11:59 AM, Carllamy said:

As Monday starts the Camden Yards 25th Anniversary, I thought it would be a hoot to look through the Opening Day lineups and put together a Camden Yards Opening Day all-bad team. While it is possible to do (see below) the one thing that jumped out at me was that, during their tenure at Camden Yards, the O's really haven't fielded (at least in terms of Opening Day starters) a lot of truly bad players/lineups. There have been some, but I compared lineups with some from before Camden Yards, and was surprised.

It isn't that these teams were bad, per se, at least in my opinion. The problem was, many were just really, really mediocre. I picked one at random, the 1999 team. The Opening Day Lineup was:

Charles Johnson - C, Will Clark -1B, Jeff Reboulet - 2B, Cal Ripken - 3B, Mike Bordick - SS, B.J. Surhoff, Brady Anderson and Albert Belle - OF, an ageing Jeff Conine - DH and Mike Mussina  - P.

Really, when you look at that team, there aren't really any awful players (I assume Jeff Reboulet was in for injury, like Ryan Flaherty in 2014 and 2015 starting lineups? I don't remember).

Ah, this brings back some painful memories. Yes, Reboulet was an injury replacement in that '99 Opening Day lineup. The O's had signed Delino DeShields to a three-year deal to be their second baseman, but he missed the first week of the season with an injury.

Quote

That said, my all-bad Camden Yards Opening Day lineup:

C - Gernimo Gil (It would have been Brook Fordyce, but I think he stated because of injury? just like Gregg Zaun, so I'm ruling him out)

1B - Kevin Millar

2B - It's a tie: Bret Barberie and Mark McLemore

3B - Chris Sabo

SS - Cesar Izturis

OF - Felix Pie, Andy Van Slyke, Sammy Sosa

DH - Joe Carter

P - Pat Hentgan *********** We have a winner. In my book, the most embarrassingly bad Opening Day player in Camden Yards history

Sadly, Brook Fordyce was not an injury replacement. He was actually the Orioles' regular catcher that year (2001). The O's got him in the 2000 fire sale and he hit very well the rest of that year (.322 with an .898 OPS) so they anointed him their starter for 2001. It...didn't go well.

Zaun wasn't an injury replacement per se when he started (2009). He was the regular catcher for the first month and a half, but with the understanding that he would become the backup once the Orioles promoted Matt Wieters to the majors, which they did in May.

As for Hentgen, he definitely wasn't the worst OD player in Camden Yards history. (That title belongs to Garrett Atkins, IMO). Heck, in Hentgen's Opening Day start, he pitched 8.2 innings and allowed only one run (and outdueled Pedro Martinez). It was probably one of the best O's Opening Day starting pitching performances in OPACY history.

[PaulFolk]

On 4/1/2017 at 3:11 PM, sportsfan8703 said:

Pat Hentgen was poised to have a good year for us until he need TJ.  Millwood or Bud Norris are probably our two worst OD starters.  

Bud started an Orioles home opener (2015), but it wasn't Opening Day-- they started on the road that year.

[Redskins Rick]

14 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

Bud started an Orioles home opener (2015), but it wasn't Opening Day-- they started on the road that year.

And now for the rest of the story, Paul Folk says, "......"

[Dark Helmet]

On Saturday, April 01, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Carllamy said:

As Monday starts the Camden Yards 25th Anniversary, I thought it would be a hoot to look through the Opening Day lineups and put together a Camden Yards Opening Day all-bad team. While it is possible to do (see below) the one thing that jumped out at me was that, during their tenure at Camden Yards, the O's really haven't fielded (at least in terms of Opening Day starters) a lot of truly bad players/lineups. There have been some, but I compared lineups with some from before Camden Yards, and was surprised.

It isn't that these teams were bad, per se, at least in my opinion. The problem was, many were just really, really mediocre. I picked one at random, the 1999 team. The Opening Day Lineup was:

Charles Johnson - C, Will Clark -1B, Jeff Reboulet - 2B, Cal Ripken - 3B, Mike Bordick - SS, B.J. Surhoff, Brady Anderson and Albert Belle - OF, an ageing Jeff Conine - DH and Mike Mussina  - P.

Really, when you look at that team, there aren't really any awful players (I assume Jeff Reboulet was in for injury, like Ryan Flaherty in 2014 and 2015 starting lineups? I don't remember). And, there are some good players. But it just wasn't a team that was ever going to be good. Nor was it gong to be awful. It was always going to be mediocre unless several guys played at the absolute top of their games. Which didn't happen. They won 78 games. Which should have been, and really was, predictable. And while this team, as a random example of the teams that have started in Camden Yards wasn't good, compared to some of the lineups at looked at pre-Camden Yards (see 1988) it wasn't really embarrassingly bad.

My point is, Camden Yards has marked sort of a long-term resurgence for the Orioles. The teams have gone from plain bad pre-Camden Yards, to no worse than mediocre and actually good during the Camden Yards years.  And that was a surprise to me. I had it in my head that some of the Camden Yards teams were just awful. There's no doubt that some were simply not good, but I don't think any were actually bad. That said, my all-bad Camden Yards Opening Day lineup:

C - Gernimo Gil (It would have been Brook Fordyce, but I think he stated because of injury? just like Gregg Zaun, so I'm ruling him out)

1B - Kevin Millar

2B - It's a tie: Bret Barberie and Mark McLemore

3B - Chris Sabo

SS - Cesar Izturis

OF - Felix Pie, Andy Van Slyke, Sammy Sosa

DH - Joe Carter

P - Pat Hentgan *********** We have a winner. In my book, the most embarrassingly bad Opening Day player in Camden Yards history

Pat Hentgen threw maybe the best OD start in OPACY other than Sutcliffe. He out pitched a Pedro Martinez that was in his prime.

I'd take Joe Carter at DH over Chris Richard.

I'd take Mark McClemore over Jeff Resolute.

I'd take Caesar Itzturis over Devil Cruz.

 

[Dark Helmet]

13 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

Pat Hentgen threw maybe the best OD start in OPACY other than Sutcliffe. He out pitched a Pedro Martinez that was in his prime.

I'd take Joe Carter at DH over Chris Richard.

I'd take Mark McClemore over Jeff Resolute.

I'd take Caesar Itzturis over Devil Cruz.

 

Reboulet.

[FlipTheBird]

On April 1, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Carllamy said:

As Monday starts the Camden Yards 25th Anniversary, I thought it would be a hoot to look through the Opening Day lineups and put together a Camden Yards Opening Day all-bad team. While it is possible to do (see below) the one thing that jumped out at me was that, during their tenure at Camden Yards, the O's really haven't fielded (at least in terms of Opening Day starters) a lot of truly bad players/lineups. There have been some, but I compared lineups with some from before Camden Yards, and was surprised.

It isn't that these teams were bad, per se, at least in my opinion. The problem was, many were just really, really mediocre. I picked one at random, the 1999 team. The Opening Day Lineup was:

Charles Johnson - C, Will Clark -1B, Jeff Reboulet - 2B, Cal Ripken - 3B, Mike Bordick - SS, B.J. Surhoff, Brady Anderson and Albert Belle - OF, an ageing Jeff Conine - DH and Mike Mussina  - P.

Really, when you look at that team, there aren't really any awful players (I assume Jeff Reboulet was in for injury, like Ryan Flaherty in 2014 and 2015 starting lineups? I don't remember). And, there are some good players. But it just wasn't a team that was ever going to be good. Nor was it gong to be awful. It was always going to be mediocre unless several guys played at the absolute top of their games. Which didn't happen. They won 78 games. Which should have been, and really was, predictable. And while this team, as a random example of the teams that have started in Camden Yards wasn't good, compared to some of the lineups at looked at pre-Camden Yards (see 1988) it wasn't really embarrassingly bad.

My point is, Camden Yards has marked sort of a long-term resurgence for the Orioles. The teams have gone from plain bad pre-Camden Yards, to no worse than mediocre and actually good during the Camden Yards years.  And that was a surprise to me. I had it in my head that some of the Camden Yards teams were just awful. There's no doubt that some were simply not good, but I don't think any were actually bad. That said, my all-bad Camden Yards Opening Day lineup:

C - Gernimo Gil (It would have been Brook Fordyce, but I think he stated because of injury? just like Gregg Zaun, so I'm ruling him out)

1B - Kevin Millar

2B - It's a tie: Bret Barberie and Mark McLemore

3B - Chris Sabo

SS - Cesar Izturis

OF - Felix Pie, Andy Van Slyke, Sammy Sosa

DH - Joe Carter

P - Pat Hentgan *********** We have a winner. In my book, the most embarrassingly bad Opening Day player in Camden Yards history

You are correct in assuming that Reboulet was playing due to injury. Delino Deshields was the primary 2B in 99... though his health issues led to Jerry Hairston getting a number of at bats, too.

I am thoroughly entertained that you've identified Jeff Conine as the "aging" playing in that lineup, considering there are no less than 6 players in it that are actually older than him. 

Ripken, Anderson, Bordick, Clark, Reboulet, Surhoff. All older. It was an old team.