CTBNL | Orioles self-inflicted weakness deserves to be addressed

[waroriole]

This is a great representation of an OH thread. A lot of good reasonable opinions that look at the whole picture. 

 

[Spy Fox]

I have no problem suggesting the Orioles ought to be more invested in the Latin market. This guy's article though doesn't do much to back up its claims. The opening paragraph baits you by saying the O's activity "invites speculation about possible motives far more sinister than anything Starling Marte did with a syringe," then the article itself does basically nothing to address what those motives might be. It just angrily lists reasons why the spending choices are bad baseball decisions.

And I love the conclusion that imagines if only the Orioles tried a little bit harder then Johnny Cueto, Robinson Cano, Jose Bautista (who became a pro through the amateur draft, not as an international FA), Miguel Sano, Nomar Mazara, and Gary Sanchez would ALL be Orioles. Lol.

[Filmstudy]

In 2017, you obviously can't compete at the highest level without a commitment to international scouting.

However, one thing I don't see mentioned above is the discrepancies in ages of Dominican players.  As all of us are aware, minor league relativity and the predictability of aging, particularly for hitters, depends on accurate birth dates.  Dominican players/agents/scouts consistently understated their ages in the 1980s and 1990s and I honestly have no idea if that is persisting today.  Junior Felix comes to mind as a player who made the major leagues at "20".  IIRC Miguel Tejada restated his age by 2 years at some point in his career.  That's a big disadvantage to overcome if you can't get at that information.

The age deceits are not an excuse for the lack of Dominican pitchers the Orioles have developed, because pitcher's careers don't have as strong an aging pattern (nor can they be expected to be as long).

I'm also frustrated by the Orioles inability to sign more foreign-born stars, but the background is disturbing.

Here is an article on Junior Felix from 1993:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-01-28/sports/9303173083_1_angel-manager-buck-rodgers-junior-felix-florida-marlins

[Frobby]

I don't think the age falsification is nearly the problem today that it was in the mid-2000's and before.   The Dominican government cracked down sometime around 2008 (shortly after Tejada left here IIRC) and you can't get a visa into the US without good documentation now.   

[Moondoggie]

I've often expressed my own desire for the Orioles to be more active in the Latin American market, but I can't fathom the notion that there's anything nefarious about it. I just think it's the Orioles being extra conservative with their spending. I'd rather they took a few more chances on some of that Latin American talent, but it's not my money.

The strange thing, though, is that after Duquette was hired he began talking about developing that very market. They hired veteran Latin American scout Fred Ferreira (the guy who unearthed Bernie Williams and Vlad Guerrero) and put some extra scouts on the payroll down there. Checking back, I even unearthed a Melewski blog titled "Orioles stepping up their game in Dominican Republic and Latin America." Well, it must have been awfully short steps.

Actually, this is something that goes back decades. I found this in a 1994 Rosenthal article in the Baltimore Sun:

Quote

On Sept. 15, owner Peter Angelos met for approximately 90 minutes with Baltimore attorney Mike Powers, the agent for most of the Orioles' Latin prospects.

Powers outlined his concerns, and suggested the Orioles hire a Latin American coordinator to help Latin players adjust to the United States.

Assistant GM Frank Robinson said he has lobbied for several years to add such a coordinator. Angelos apparently was receptive and told Powers to send a follow-up letter.

"We haven't done what we should have done [in promoting Latins]," Robinson said yesterday. "That's a fact, as far as I'm concerned."

Robinson wants the Orioles to increase their Latin American scouting, hire more Hispanic instructors and even require Spanish lessons for members of the front office.

It's time, don't you think?

The Los Angeles Dodgers and Toronto Blue Jays plunged into the Dominican in the 1980s. The Texas Rangers established a stronghold in Puerto Rico. The Orioles still haven't caught up.

Former assistant GM Doug Melvin rebuilt the farm system. But for all their minor-league breakthroughs, the Orioles' dirty little secret was their lack of success with Latins.

"I would have liked to have done a little better job completing their development at the big-league level," said Melvin, now the GM in Texas.

Melvin, a Canadian, was the man responsible for player development, but the blame can't be placed on one individual.

It belongs to the entire organization.

Orioles shift to shore up Latin lineup

That was less than a year after Angelos bought the team.

[LookitsPuck]

21 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

Think about it this way. Of that top 50, 19 were acquired via July 2nd period or Cuba. That's 38% of the top 50. Now look at where the Orioles are drafting for the last 5 or 6 years. Usually in the 20+ range. So after you take out 19 players and all those other guys who were gone by the time Baltimore made their first pick and it's no wonder the farm is fairly depleted. Duquette is working with such a small pool of talent to choose from compared to others it's a minor miracle he's managed to bring in some nice nuggets here and there. You simply can't have draft picks 20+ and ignore the international market and expect continued success unless your GM is a draft genius. You're asking way too much from him.

You also shouldn't give up first rounders for Ubaldo, Gallardo and trade draft picks along with players  as a salary dump. A lot of it is self inflicted. Dumping Miguel Gonzalez who was cheap and controlled after a very small sample size? Trading Miranda for Miley? You increase the payroll for marginal upgrades at best while depleting your system and set yourself up for future failure. 

[backwardsk]

Six years ago.  Nationals.  Are any of these guys besides Severino on any kind of MLB radar?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.federalbaseball.com/platform/amp/2011/2/24/2012847/washington-nationals-announce-signings-of-16-international-free-agents

[Larry18]

10 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Six years ago.  Nationals.  Are any of these guys besides Severino on any kind of MLB radar?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.federalbaseball.com/platform/amp/2011/2/24/2012847/washington-nationals-announce-signings-of-16-international-free-agents

What were the bonuses? They all look like older players that they signed cheap after the Bowden kickback scandal.

[ArtVanDelay]

 

16 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Six years ago.  Nationals.  Are any of these guys besides Severino on any kind of MLB radar?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.federalbaseball.com/platform/amp/2011/2/24/2012847/washington-nationals-announce-signings-of-16-international-free-agents

They spent a million bucks and got Pedro Severino.  He's going to be worth a lot more than $1MM to them.  He already has been, actually. 

[Ornithological]

The article also ignores the international signings in Asia Pacific.   Koji, Wei-Yin Chen, and Kim have been good signings.   Alex Wells is a promising prospect.   Guiyan Xu is on the rookie league roster.    Suk-Min Yoon and Pita Rona were busts, but we did not spend a lot on them.   Tsuyoshi Wada never helped the Orioles partly because of injuries, but he had a few useful seasons for the Cubs.