I Have A Take On Manny's "Hotdogging It".

[PaulFolk]

4 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Charging the mound isn't a baseball move either. Throwing at someone isn't a baseball move either. Throwing a bat at someone isn't a baseball move either.

Agreed. They're all stupid and dangerous. Usually players don't do it to their own teammates, though.

So can we agree the Papelbon incident wasn't a good example to support your case?

Just to get back on track, let's focus on another one of your examples-- Bobby Cox pulling Andruw Jones from a game for not hustling. Is there any evidence whether that incident actually helped Jones? How did Jones respond? Did his performance on the field improve? Did he talk about how that incident was a turning point for him?

I don't actually know the answer to these questions, but I'm hoping you do.

[ORIOLE33]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I am sorry but you and I as fans know nothing about what Manny is dealing with.  We don't know his physical condition. His aches and pains.  We know nothing about about his family,  Who is ill.  We know nothing about his training regiment.  What he is able to do now to prepare for games.  Manny added muscle his off season.  We don't know how that is affecting him.  

Buck knows exactly what is happening with Manny. Physically and emotionally.  Buck is among the best managers at knowing his players and helping them deal with whatever they are  going through.  To criticize Buck on not dealing with his players seems misplayed to me.

Manny make amazing plays.  He posts every day Buck allows him too. As fans I think we should enjoy what Manny offers while we can because this could be his last as an Oriole.   We will miss him when he is gone.  Whether that is next year or sometime in the future.

 

Then you might as well just shut this board down then, since none of us know these guys. No one should ever complain about anyone, not just Manny.

[ORIOLE33]

11 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

Agreed. They're all stupid and dangerous. Usually players don't do it to their own teammates, though.

So can we agree the Papelbon incident wasn't a good example to support your case?

Just to get back on track, let's focus on another one of your examples-- Bobby Cox pulling Andruw Jones from a game for not hustling. Is there any evidence whether that incident actually helped Jones? How did Jones respond? Did his performance on the field improve? Did he talk about how that incident was a turning point for him?

I don't actually know the answer to these questions, but I'm hoping you do.

Does it really matter? It's like punishing your kids. You punish them so they won't do it again. As for Andrew Jones, even if his performance on the field improve, I'm willing to bet he gave 100% from that moment on.

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Then you might as well just shut this board down then, since none of us know these guys. No one should ever complain about anyone, not just Manny.

We discuss all kind of things here about the O's.   Most of them we know more about then Manny's physical and mental and emotional condition.  The team doesn't talk about those things so we know little.  Its not in the team's best interest to broadcast players problems because the others teams can take advantage of those problems.  

We watch Manny dive, twist and throw.  What toll does it take?  We can only guess. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Does it really matter? It's like punishing your kids. You punish them so they won't do it again. As for Andrew Jones, even if his performance on the field improve, I'm willing to bet he gave 100% from that moment on.

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat.  You ever have a lazy co-worker/employee?  You lay into them and they shape up for as short a period of time as they think they can get away with.

You can't instill a work ethic into a grown man by occasional mild reprimands.

[webbrick2010]

55 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Manny is reminding me of Eddie Murray and how the press ran him out of town for the same thing. Meanwhile, Cal the golden boy, didn't catch nearly the same flack. 

Why doesn't the media criticize Buck more?  I think people want to buy into the young "Arod" stereotype and are pre punishing Manny for being a FA in two years. 

Get over it. Manny is a top 5 player in baseball. Enjoy him instead of criticizing him for being a hot dog. You can't punish Manny for Arod's mistakes. 

People have some Baltimore insecure complex that they are hating/blaming Manny for something he hasn't even done yet. 

People keep saying this but it just isn't true

This year he isn't even a top 5 third baseman in baseball

[ORIOLE33]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat.  You ever have a lazy co-worker/employee?  You lay into them and they shape up for as short a period of time as they think they can get away with.

You can't instill a work ethic into a grown man by occasional mild reprimands.

Oh, I have a VERY lazy co-worker. That's another story for another day. 

But I think sports is a little different than your avg workplace. If your boss calls you out in front of millions of people, I think that would be motivation to shape up.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

People keep saying this but it just isn't true

This year he isn't even a top 5 third baseman in baseball

Only Trout, Kershaw and Donaldson outproduced Machado in 2015 and 2016.  In both years Machado was the eighth best player in the league.  I do not think it is at all out of line to take that data and state with some confidence that Machado is a top five player.  Of course in the long or short run does it make a difference if Manny is a top five player or a top eight player?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Oh, I have a VERY lazy co-worker. That's another story for another day. 

But I think sports is a little different than your avg workplace. If your boss calls you out in front of millions of people, I think that would be motivation to shape up.

I don't agree.  I just think you find less obviously lazy people in that sort of field of endeavor.

[webbrick2010]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Only Trout, Kershaw and Donaldson outproduced Machado in 2015 and 2016.  In both years Machado was the eighth best player in the league.  I do not think it is at all out of line to take that data and state with some confidence that Machado is a top five player.  Of course in the long or short run does it make a difference if Manny is a top five player or a top eight player?

Don't know what list that is from, but a list that says that Arenado didn't out produce Manny in 2015 and 2016 is just wrong. Arenado is better in just about every offensive & defensive stat. Pretty sure I can come up with othesr... like Altuve, or Betts, or Kris Bryant

If Manny was top 5 or top 10... he is slipping fast, lots of great players have been coming into the league, like Lidnor, and Judge, and Sanchez, and Benitendi

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Don't know what list that is from, but a list that says that Arenado didn't out produce Manny in 2015 and 2016 is just wrong. Arenado is better in just about every offensive & defensive stat. Pretty sure I can come up with othesr... like Altuve, or Betts, or Kris Bryant

If Manny was top 5 or top 10... he is slipping fast, lots of great players have been coming into the league, like Lidnor, and Judge, and Sanchez, and Benitendi

That was by rWAR.  If you want to go by fWAR than Manny was sixth in 2016 and seventh in 2015.  But let me guess you don't like WAR?  You probably only go by your personal opinion. 

[Tx Oriole]

10 hours ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Manny should definitely be the one held responsible for it, but I have yet heard anyone mention Buck's responsibility.

IMO, Manny hotdogs It because Buck allows it. That's on Buck. Do you believe Manny would try that with a manager like Weaver or Bobby Cox? Remember when Cox pulled Andrew Jones from a game for hotdogging it? It's called tough love. I still remember Carlton Fisk getting in Deion Sanders' face for not running hard down the line. Fisk was on the other team. Palpavon getting in Harper's face for not running down the line. Again, tough love. 

The next time Manny hotdogs it or doesn't hustle down the line and nothing happens, don't look at Manny, look at Buck.

Oh great. Manny doesn't run his ass off and now he is a hotdogger. How dare him not husstle all the damn time. Be happy you won't have Manny to complain about after next year.

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

22 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

IManny has always played the game "cool" and played 3B with a little extra mustard.  Half the people complaining had no problem with it when he was producing.

He's having worse AB's than he did his first two years.  I don't know the reason why but he's playing the game the same way he always has.

 

Because Manny is trying to pull every pitch instead of making good contact, which worked for him until the all star break last season.  

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/79811/real-or-not-manny-machado-should-be-better-mlbs-filthiest-pitch-of-the-year

[webbrick2010]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That was by rWAR.  If you want to go by fWAR than Manny was sixth in 2016 and seventh in 2015.  But let me guess you don't like WAR?  You probably only go by your personal opinion. 

Sorry didn't mean to touch a nerve. I see that fWAR doesn't like Arenado at all, surprising looking at his traditional stats, and the fact that he haw won 4 consecutive GG'

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Sorry didn't mean to touch a nerve. I see that fWAR doesn't like Arenado at all, surprising looking at his traditional stats, and the fact that he haw won 4 consecutive GG'

How many Gold Gloves did Jeter win again?

As for traditional stats, he plays in Colorado. 

For the record, I do think that the two players are pretty equivalently talented.