When do the O's fish or cut bait with Duquette and Showalter?

[eddie83]

Dan has made many mistakes but reading this you would think he has been the worst GM in all of pro sports the last 5 years.  

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, Norfolk orioles said:

Yeah there is no leadership.

 

We are constantly forced to react and are NEVER proactive. It shows and it's finally caught up to us.

Looks like it's a lot of people getting to pick their "boys" and making other mistakes.   

Brady- O'day, Davis contracts.  Running off Wallace and Chiti.  

Buck- Hardy extension.  Not pitching Britton in the WC game.  Not pitching Krod more in 2013.

DD- Travis Snider, Gallardo, Ubaldo, letting Markakis walk, letting Cruz walk, Parra, Miranda, Kim.  Yoon suk-min.  Wada,  

Lots of bad judgments.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I read this to say that Gelles would have a good chance if there's change made after the 2018 season (or later), but not now. Is that what you mean?

I know a little bit about her, and from the little I know I think she'd be a good choice. But I have no idea what kind of reputation/respect she has in the front office or with ownership. I also don't know of any specific input she's had that's had either a positive effect in building the team or a negative effect in creating the current mess.

 

Dan hired her, I figure if he leaves on bad terms they are not likely to keep her around.  I honestly don't think Ownership would make her GM, seems like too risky a move for them.  She did however get a wider range of responsibilities this year and she went to Amherst.

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Looks like it's a lot of people getting to pick their "boys" and making other mistakes.   

Brady- O'day, Davis contracts.  Running off Wallace and Chiti.  

Buck- Hardy extension.  Not pitching Britton in the WC game.  Not pitching Krod more in 2013.

DD- Travis Snider, Gallardo, Ubaldo, letting Markakis walk, letting Cruz walk, Parra, Miranda, Kim.  Yoon suk-min.  Wada,  

Lots of bad judgments.  

Boston gave Panda and Rusney Castillo a boat load of money. 

The Yankees haven't developed a starting pitcher since Pettitte.  

Tampa hasn't been good since 2013.  

Toronto dealt Thor for Dickey.  

All teams have bad judgments.  

[sportsfan8703]

7 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Boston gave Panda and Rusney Castillo a boat load of money. 

The Yankees haven't developed a starting pitcher since Pettitte.  

Tampa hasn't been good since 2013.  

Toronto dealt Thor for Dickey.  

All teams have bad judgments.  

Who cares about other teams?  You can always just compare out to hide your own mistakes.  DD has made some huge ones.  I was the biggest DD supporter but it's clear that this brand of team building requires an awful lot of magic from Buck.  

BOSTON- can afford mistakes

NYY- can afford mistakes

TB- is right behind us in the standings and has actually gone to a WS recently

Tor- has had more playoff success than us.  

DD killed us when he wanted the Toronto job after 2014.  That Orioles team was a juggernaut.  We should have kept Miller and Cruz.  2015 was squandered.  That was DD's fault.  He didn't have his head in the game with us until very late in the offseason.  

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Who cares about other teams?  You can always just compare out to hide your own mistakes.  DD has made some huge ones.  I was the biggest DD supporter but it's clear that this brand of team building requires an awful lot of magic from Buck.  

BOSTON- can afford mistakes

NYY- can afford mistakes

TB- is right behind us in the standings and has actually gone to a WS recently

Tor- has had more playoff success than us.  

DD killed us when he wanted the Toronto job after 2014.  That Orioles team was a juggernaut.  We should have kept Miller and Cruz.  2015 was squandered.  That was DD's fault.  He didn't have his head in the game with us until very late in the offseason.  

Tampa went to the WS in 08, has nothing to do with now  

More playoff success? Both teams made the ALCS and both made ALDS. 

They got a pick for Cruz that has worked out.

Did the owner allow the GM to even make an offer to Miller?

Look DD has made plenty of mistakes and you are correct, Boston and NYY have margin for error that we don't. All that said the piling on is a bit much. 

There isn't one person on this board that thought Tillman and Gausman would be this bad right after the season ended last year, not one. No doubt the lack of pitching depth and overall organizational talent was going to bite us at some point. That said two of the biggest reasons we made the playoffs last year and two of the biggest reasons we all feel so hopeless now are Gausman and Tillman. 

I am not saying that Dan deserves excuses. That said some of the issues this year were not ones we all saw coming. 

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Tampa went to the WS in 08, has nothing to do with now  

More playoff success? Both teams made the ALCS and both made ALDS. 

They got a pick for Cruz that has worked out.

Did the owner allow the GM to even make an offer to Miller?

Look DD has made plenty of mistakes and you are correct, Boston and NYY have margin for error that we don't. All that said the piling on is a bit much. 

There isn't one person on this board that thought Tillman and Gausman would be this bad right after the season ended last year, not one. No doubt the lack of pitching depth and overall organizational talent was going to bite us at some point. That said two of the biggest reasons we made the playoffs last year and two of the biggest reasons we all feel so hopeless now are Gausman and Tillman. 

I am not saying that Dan deserves excuses. That said some of the issues this year were not ones we all saw coming. 

DD spent the early part of the offseason talking about adding more OBP.  He knew what the problem was.  He just didn't address it.  His hands are obviously tied to a certain exent.  But there is a disconnect throughout the organization.  We have a team full of DH's and all or nothing hitters.  The Tillman injury situation was handled poorly.  

When you have 2/5 of a rotation and you've traded away an entire MLB rotation, you have to take some blame.  I was a huge DD supporter, but I kind of can't forgive him for flirting with the TOR job.  So it makes me pretty mad that we don't have Davies, Miranda, Triggs and Gonzo.  I'm fine with losing Hader, Ed Rod and Arrietta.  Those trades had to be made.  

[Norfolk orioles]

It also does not help one bit that Dan's idea of "organizational depth" is nothing but AAAA players, cast offs from other teams and reclamation projects.

 

It's worked a few times (mcclouth for example) but the vast majority have ended up as failures which have added zero value to the organization. 

[eddie83]

8 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

DD spent the early part of the offseason talking about adding more OBP.  He knew what the problem was.  He just didn't address it.  His hands are obviously tied to a certain exent.  But there is a disconnect throughout the organization.  We have a team full of DH's and all or nothing hitters.  The Tillman injury situation was handled poorly.  

When you have 2/5 of a rotation and you've traded away an entire MLB rotation, you have to take some blame.  I was a huge DD supporter, but I kind of can't forgive him for flirting with the TOR job.  So it makes me pretty mad that we don't have Davies, Miranda, Triggs and Gonzo.  I'm fine with losing Hader, Ed Rod and Arrietta.  Those trades had to be made.  

I don't blame DD for the Tillman injury. He added Smith, high OBP players are not readily or cheaply available on the open market. 

Hard for me to get worked up about Triggs, a journeyman. Davies was a bad trade because Parra was a bust, that said I don't see Davies being a good pitcher in the AL East. Miranda at this point who knows. Gonzo was a mistake.

 

[eddie83]

7 hours ago, Norfolk orioles said:

It also does not help one bit that Dan's idea of "organizational depth" is nothing but AAAA players, cast offs from other teams and reclamation projects.

 

It's worked a few times (mcclouth for example) but the vast majority have ended up as failures which have added zero value to the organization. 

All teams add those type of players. Dan is like all GM's, he talks up his team.  

[FlipTheBird]

2 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I don't blame DD for the Tillman injury. He added Smith, high OBP players are not readily or cheaply available on the open market. 

Hard for me to get worked up about Triggs, a journeyman. Davies was a bad trade because Parra was a bust, that said I don't see Davies being a good pitcher in the AL East. Miranda at this point who knows. Gonzo was a mistake.

 

The wheels have also come off the bus for Triggs, who got lit up most of May before finally hitting the DL. ERA is over 4 now and climbing.

Gonzo isn't wowing anyone this season, either.

Point is, some folks here want to attack Duquette over legitimately any move he ever makes, and are more than happy to jump on extraordinarily small sample sizes to do so.

[eddie83]

19 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

The wheels have also come off the bus for Triggs, who got lit up most of May before finally hitting the DL. ERA is over 4 now and climbing.

Gonzo isn't wowing anyone this season, either.

Point is, some folks here want to attack Duquette over legitimately any move he ever makes, and are more than happy to jump on extraordinarily small sample sizes to do so.

I agree. Some of the talk about who we have lost is way overstated. Arrieta was an organizational screw up, Buck included.

The back end of the pen and starting depth at AAA isn't good. Dan is the GM and of course it is his responsibility. That said these guys are getting exposed due to injuries and lack of performance.  

Last year a guy like Worley wasn't overused and he pitched well. Asher perhaps can be a Worley type but now he is a set starter. Things are snowballing.

[weams]

3 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I don't blame DD for the Tillman injury. He added Smith, high OBP players are not readily or cheaply available on the open market. 

Hard for me to get worked up about Triggs, a journeyman. Davies was a bad trade because Parra was a bust, that said I don't see Davies being a good pitcher in the AL East. Miranda at this point who knows. Gonzo was a mistake.

 

Triggs is disabled. With an arm injury.

[FlipTheBird]

12 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I agree. Some of the talk about who we have lost is way overstated. Arrieta was an organizational screw up, Buck included.

The back end of the pen and starting depth at AAA isn't good. Dan is the GM and of course it is his responsibility. That said these guys are getting exposed due to injuries and lack of performance.  

Last year a guy like Worley wasn't overused and he pitched well. Asher perhaps can be a Worley type but now he is a set starter. Things are snowballing.

It's tough, because pitching is at a premium more now than it has been in ages - because it seems like almost no one has much depth there, short of 2-3 teams at the very top. ERA's are up all throughout the league. It's crazy.

The O's came into the year hoping that Lee, Aquino and maybe Ynoa could make contributions. Instead those three have all gone nuclear in Norfolk and are having the worst years of their MiLB careers. All three of them. It's absurd how bad things have been.

[eddie83]

Just now, weams said:

Triggs is disabled. With an arm injury.

He also isn't very good. If he has a good career more power to him but I don't see it.