What's the most you'd offer any of Hardy, Jimenez, Miley, or Tillman to return?

[tntoriole]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Have we reached the point where 3/30 counts as a flyer?

For starting pitchers...probably.  I still think he has not recovered.  His average velocity has been down all year.  It started down during the last part of last year, was really down when he tried to pitch earlier this year and still has not quite ticked back. 

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=5279&position=P&pitch=FA&data=pi

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

For starting pitchers...probably.  I still think he has not recovered.  His average velocity has been down all year.  It started down during the last part of last year, was really down when he tried to pitch earlier this year and still has not quite ticked back. 

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=5279&position=P&pitch=FA&data=pi

Brooks has his 4 seamer at 91.78 in July and 92.42 so far this month.  In five of the six months of the 2015 season his 4 seamer was 92.XX, in 2014 it was 91.XX in Five of the months.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=501957&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=08/08/2017&s_type=2

I don't see where his current velocity is a red flag given his historic numbers.

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And this is baseball, guys get bad overnight at 29 on a fairly frequent basis. 

Not this bad.   

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Not this bad.   

Matusz was a perfectly serviceable starter in 2010 and the worst starter in history in 2011.  He was 24.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Matusz was a perfectly serviceable starter in 2010 and the worst starter in history in 2011.  He was 24.

Well, you certainly have a point there.     

[SteveO]

It's certainly possible that Tillman will not bounce back and he will scuffle along another year or two before fading into baseball oblivion.

Based on his history though, there is a chance he could bounce back. As pointed out in this thread, his FB velocity is around it's norm. Tillman would not be the first guy to sustain an injury, come back and just stumble through a lost season then bounce back somewhat to form the next.

Only time will tell but I think its a bit premature to say he just "got bad" given the circumstances that have surrounded his season to date. His future is certainly questionable but I would take a flyer on him with a one year low money deal. Even if he gave you 80% of what he has before that would make for a decentish back of the rotation type guy on the cheap (veteran to boot).

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, SteveO said:

It's certainly possible that Tillman will not bounce back and he will scuffle along another year or two before fading into baseball oblivion.

Based on his history though, there is a chance he could bounce back. As pointed out in this thread, his FB velocity is around it's norm. Tillman would not be the first guy to sustain an injury, come back and just stumble through a lost season then bounce back somewhat to form the next.

Only time will tell but I think its a bit premature to say he just "got bad" given the circumstances that have surrounded his season to date. His future is certainly questionable but I would take a flyer on him with a one year low money deal. Even if he gave you 80% of what he has before that would make for a decentish back of the rotation type guy on the cheap (veteran to boot).

I could be convinced on a one year deal.

I want no part of a multi-year deal unless all the years after year one are team options.

[SteveO]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I could be convinced on a one year deal.

I want no part of a multi-year deal unless all the years after year one are team options.

No doubt. Totally agree. One year small money.

Optimally we are talking about a 1 year deal for small enough money that if he comes out and looks like hot garbage then you just DFA him.

If he rebounds then your getting a nice deal and some good numbers from your 5th starter.

If someone wants to take a bigger risk than that on him...more power to them and good luck.

 

[TradeAngelos]

45 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Matusz was a perfectly serviceable starter in 2010 and the worst starter in history in 2011.  He was 24.

How about a pitcher who actually had a long track record like Tillman at a similar age? Matusz is not the least bit comparable. 

I'm sure you can find at lest one that won't prove a darn thing either way right? 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

How about a pitcher who actually had a long track record like Tillman at a similar age? Matusz is not the least bit comparable. 

I'm sure you can find at lest one that won't prove a darn thing either way right? 

Kazmir work for you?  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Kazmir work for you?  

Dontrelle Willis?

[SteveO]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Kazmir work for you?  

Jeff Samardzija comes to mind as a pretty good example

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Jeff Samardzija comes to mind as a pretty good example

Hellickson.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Hellickson.

Shelby Miller.

[TradeAngelos]

3 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Jeff Samardzija comes to mind as a pretty good example

Nope Older. Still pitching decently. Pretty far from "done" by the looks of it.