TT: Is this really the worst season of your fandom?

[Tony-OH]

Dan Connolly of Baltimore Baseball wrote an interesting column and got me thinking. Is this one of the worse seasons of your fandom?

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2017/09/12/tap-question-season-really-harder-fans-dark-years-1998-2011/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

It's a good question. Has this been one of the toughest years to be an Orioles fan because of the horrid starting pitching and streakiness? Is it hard to watch a team with with a top-10 payroll perform so inconsistently? 

Me, I think part of the problem is the fact that this team is at the end of it's window with it's current group of players and they are stuck in some bad contracts. The Orioles have eight players making $10 million and more, but five of them (Chris Davis, JJ Hardy, Ubaldo Jimenez, Mark Trumbo, Chris Tillman) are well below average MLB ball players. The next four highest paid Orioles are Wade Miley ($8.9 million), Darren O'day (7 million), Seth Smith (7 million) and Jeremy Hellickson who will make around $6.1 million with the Orioles. The only three players (Machado,, Jones and Britton) in the top 12 highest paid players who can be counted on to be solid contributors over the next 2-3 years will all be free agents after next season.

The good news in all of this? Hardy, Jimenez, Tillman, Miley, Smith and Hellickson all come off the books. That's close to $60 million coming off the books after this season. It would look a lot better had the Orioles not made the Davis and Trumbo mistakes, but that's a different conversation.

How they spend that money will all depend on Manny Machado and whether he's willing to sign a long term contract with the Orioles. If not, he must be traded and then depending on the haul, they then will know who they need to target this offseason through free agency or trades. 

As for Machado, I get asked all the time, will the Orioles resign him. I answer the same way, the real question is, what does Manny Machado want to be known for? Does he want to have a chance at leaving a legacy as being the greatest Oriole of all-time, or does he want to make the absolute most money he can make? No matter what he decides, he will make more money then he and his family will ever be able to spend, so the question is, how much does leaving a legacy mean to Manny? Is it worth making less money and doing it in Baltimore when trendier places like Miami, New York, or LA could be calling? 

The Orioles offseason completely revolves around Manny since they can not afford to just let him walk for a draft pick, and if he goes to free agency, he's not staying with the Orioles. and oh, by the way,  a guy Named Jonathan Schoop will need to be paid too soon.

All of these things weigh on Orioles fans. With a window closing, and some key players coming up for free agency along with knowing that several under performing Orioles are among the highest paid and signed long term, and it's a stressful time to be an Orioles fan. 

What do you think?

[Frobby]

If this is one of the worst years of someone's fandom, that person is extraordinarily spoiled.     This year wouldn't make my 15 worst, even assuming we end up with a losing record.     

[Il BuonO]

Yes, for the money already spent I'd expect them to be better. It's not an entirely different conversation because an unsightly portion of the current payroll is taken up by the two guys you mention. 

I think it's too late to get a "haul" for Machado, but a trade for something is better than sitting through half-hearted negotiations and the Orioles claiming they made him a "competitive" offer.

All that said, it pales in comparison to the 14 straight losing seasons.

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Frobby said:

If this is one of the worst years of someone's fandom, that person is extraordinarily spoiled.     This year wouldn't make my 15 worst, even assuming we end up with a losing record.     

I don't think that's necessarily true. Clearly this won't be one of the worse seasons for the Orioles no matter how they end the season W-L wise, but it has bee na  frustrating season due to how often they have been put in a hole by their starting pitching and then inevitably when the offense goes into a slump they start losing streaks. 

While this won't rank among my worse seasons, it definitely has been a  frustrating one. Maybe it's because for me, I can't stand watching Davis bat and knowing he's signed for five more years after this is deflating. I hate knowing that we only have two decent starting pitchers and will have to find three next year while still hoping that Bundy and Gausman take steps forward. It's watching Buck run out the same lineups while players who could potentially give them a spark sit on the bench.

It's watching Ubaldo and Tillman keep getting run out there and knowing that Buck doesn't really have much alternative especially when he's nursing Bundy through this last month. Maybe it's because the Orioles have gone 49-63 (.438) since starting the year off 22-10?

There are a lot of things to be frustrated about and although this may not end up a top 15 worse W-L record, there were a lot of season less frustrating in my opinion.  

 

[eddie83]

I am concerned about Manny and Schoop staying. That said 2015 bothered me more than this year. I guess it depends on how you frame the question.  The fact that our minor league system is looking better and Hays and Sisco being here and Harvey healthy gives me hope. 

Anyone who thinks this year is worse than 98-2011 has a short memory. The franchise was in disarray. Much uglier times. 

The rotation is ugly but the 3 worst pitchers have contracts that are up and I still think Gausman can be better. Bundy has shown me a lot. 

[eddie83]

1995 and 1998 were seasons that I hated. We underachieved both years. I found those seasons far less enjoyable than this one. 98 it was like the team had an on/off switch.  

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't think that's necessarily true. Clearly this won't be one of the worse seasons for the Orioles no matter how they end the season W-L wise, but it has bee na  frustrating season due to how often they have been put in a hole by their starting pitching and then inevitably when the offense goes into a slump they start losing streaks. 

While this won't rank among my worse seasons, it definitely has been a  frustrating one. Maybe it's because for me, I can't stand watching Davis bat and knowing he's signed for five more years after this is deflating. I hate knowing that we only have two decent starting pitchers and will have to find three next year while still hoping that Bundy and Gausman take steps forward. It's watching Buck run out the same lineups while players who could potentially give them a spark sit on the bench.

It's watching Ubaldo and Tillman keep getting run out there and knowing that Buck doesn't really have much alternative especially when he's nursing Bundy through this last month. Maybe it's because the Orioles have gone 49-63 (.438) since starting the year off 22-10?

There are a lot of things to be frustrated about and although this may not end up a top 15 worse W-L record, there were a lot of season less frustrating in my opinion.  

 

There were a lot of seasons where we didn't have a shred of hope, either for the current year or for the foreseeable future.   Those are the ones I consider the worst.    I wouldn't rank the seasons strictly on W-L record, though obviously that has something to do with it.

To me this season has been a mixed bag.     The starting pitching was incredibly frustrating, and sure the one-dimensional hitters get frustrating too.    But I enjoyed watching the growth in several young players, we had a lot of exciting wins (12 walk-offs, 12 extra inning wins, 7 games when we overcame a 9th inning deficit), and we've been in the WC race up to now (we can debate whether it's over now, but it certainly wasn't over a week ago).     And, there were a lot of pleasant surprises in the minors that give me hope for the future.    This season has been disappointing, but not a soul-crusher like many we've had.

[Diehard_O's_Fan]

Hey Tony! Do you think the Orioles will fire Dan especially if they end up with a losing record? Any talk of moving Buck to the front office?

[Deadwood Fan]

Tony another question is Buck and Dan's contract expire after 2018, do you think the Orioles will decide after this year whether to extend one over the other's contract? It seems like Dan is more likely to leave the organization than Buck is. 

[bobmc]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

There were a lot of seasons where we didn't have a shred of hope, either for the current year or for the foreseeable future.   Those are the ones I consider the worst.    I wouldn't rank the seasons strictly on W-L record, though obviously that has something to do with it.

To me this season has been a mixed bag.     The starting pitching was incredibly frustrating, and sure the one-dimensional hitters get frustrating too.    But I enjoyed watching the growth in several young players, we had a lot of exciting wins (12 walk-offs, 12 extra inning wins, 7 games when we overcame a 9th inning deficit), and we've been in the WC race up to now (we can debate whether it's over now, but it certainly wasn't over a week ago).     And, there were a lot of pleasant surprises in the minors that give me hope for the future.    This season has been disappointing, but not a soul-crusher like many we've had.

Here here!  I'll drink to that later.  Hard to watch CD and Trumbo but Mancini, Bundy, Castro, Beef and now Hays excite.  Manny and Schoop were marvelous!  Looking forward to the seeing Hays and Santander when we give up the chase!

 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Dan Connolly of Baltimore Baseball wrote an interesting column and got me thinking. Is this one of the worse seasons of your fandom?

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2017/09/12/tap-question-season-really-harder-fans-dark-years-1998-2011/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

It's a good question. Has this been one of the toughest years to be an Orioles fan because of the horrid starting pitching and streakiness? Is it hard to watch a team with with a top-10 payroll perform so inconsistently? 

Me, I think part of the problem is the fact that this team is at the end of it's window with it's current group of players and they are stuck in some bad contracts. The Orioles have eight players making $10 million and more, but five of them (Chris Davis, JJ Hardy, Ubaldo Jimenez, Mark Trumbo, Chris Tillman) are well below average MLB ball players. The next four highest paid Orioles are Wade Miley ($8.9 million), Darren O'day (7 million), Seth Smith (7 million) and Jeremy Hellickson who will make around $6.1 million with the Orioles. The only three players (Machado,, Jones and Britton) in the top 12 highest paid players who can be counted on to be solid contributors over the next 2-3 years will all be free agents after next season.

The good news in all of this? Hardy, Jimenez, Tillman, Miley, Smith and Hellickson all come off the books. That's close to $60 million coming off the books after this season. It would look a lot better had the Orioles not made the Davis and Trumbo mistakes, but that's a different conversation.

How they spend that money will all depend on Manny Machado and whether he's willing to sign a long term contract with the Orioles. If not, he must be traded and then depending on the haul, they then will know who they need to target this offseason through free agency or trades. 

As for Machado, I get asked all the time, will the Orioles resign him. I answer the same way, the real question is, what does Manny Machado want to be known for? Does he want to have a chance at leaving a legacy as being the greatest Oriole of all-time, or does he want to make the absolute most money he can make? No matter what he decides, he will make more money then he and his family will ever be able to spend, so the question is, how much does leaving a legacy mean to Manny? Is it worth making less money and doing it in Baltimore when trendier places like Miami, New York, or LA could be calling? 

The Orioles offseason completely revolves around Manny since they can not afford to just let him walk for a draft pick, and if he goes to free agency, he's not staying with the Orioles. and oh, by the way,  a guy Named Jonathan Schoop will need to be paid too soon.

All of these things weigh on Orioles fans. With a window closing, and some key players coming up for free agency along with knowing that several under performing Orioles are among the highest paid and signed long term, and it's a stressful time to be an Orioles fan. 

What do you think?

Good write up Tony. I think Manny will walk away. I don't trust the FO as far as I could throw them. 

[Finisher]

Ubaldo, Miley and Tillman this year are close to unwatchable for me.

Yanks and Sox would've DFAed Ubaldo in year two of his deal. The Angelos Orioles are trotting him out there in a must win game in the middle of September.

Could've had two rotations superior to the one we had this year from arms DD gave away for nothing.

[murph]

38 minutes ago, bobmc said:

Here here!  I'll drink to that later.  Hard to watch CD and Trumbo but Mancini, Bundy, Castro, Beef and now Hays excite.  Manny and Schoop were marvelous!  Looking forward to the seeing Hays and Santander when we give up the chase!

 

Mouth watering.  Is the one on the right their Captain Stardust?  (yes I went to the website to get a look at their beers and sadly I'm stuck at my desk in my office where day drinking is frowned upon....for some reason).  I'm not usually a Saison fan, but I think I would definitely try that right now! #Endofderail 

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

Hey Tony! Do you think the Orioles will fire Dan especially if they end up with a losing record? Any talk of moving Buck to the front office?

Hell no. Buck needs to be fired too.

[foxfield]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Dan Connolly of Baltimore Baseball wrote an interesting column and got me thinking. Is this one of the worse seasons of your fandom?

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2017/09/12/tap-question-season-really-harder-fans-dark-years-1998-2011/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

It's a good question. Has this been one of the toughest years to be an Orioles fan because of the horrid starting pitching and streakiness? Is it hard to watch a team with with a top-10 payroll perform so inconsistently? 

Me, I think part of the problem is the fact that this team is at the end of it's window with it's current group of players and they are stuck in some bad contracts. The Orioles have eight players making $10 million and more, but five of them (Chris Davis, JJ Hardy, Ubaldo Jimenez, Mark Trumbo, Chris Tillman) are well below average MLB ball players. The next four highest paid Orioles are Wade Miley ($8.9 million), Darren O'day (7 million), Seth Smith (7 million) and Jeremy Hellickson who will make around $6.1 million with the Orioles. The only three players (Machado,, Jones and Britton) in the top 12 highest paid players who can be counted on to be solid contributors over the next 2-3 years will all be free agents after next season.

The good news in all of this? Hardy, Jimenez, Tillman, Miley, Smith and Hellickson all come off the books. That's close to $60 million coming off the books after this season. It would look a lot better had the Orioles not made the Davis and Trumbo mistakes, but that's a different conversation.

How they spend that money will all depend on Manny Machado and whether he's willing to sign a long term contract with the Orioles. If not, he must be traded and then depending on the haul, they then will know who they need to target this offseason through free agency or trades. 

As for Machado, I get asked all the time, will the Orioles resign him. I answer the same way, the real question is, what does Manny Machado want to be known for? Does he want to have a chance at leaving a legacy as being the greatest Oriole of all-time, or does he want to make the absolute most money he can make? No matter what he decides, he will make more money then he and his family will ever be able to spend, so the question is, how much does leaving a legacy mean to Manny? Is it worth making less money and doing it in Baltimore when trendier places like Miami, New York, or LA could be calling? 

The Orioles offseason completely revolves around Manny since they can not afford to just let him walk for a draft pick, and if he goes to free agency, he's not staying with the Orioles. and oh, by the way,  a guy Named Jonathan Schoop will need to be paid too soon.

All of these things weigh on Orioles fans. With a window closing, and some key players coming up for free agency along with knowing that several under performing Orioles are among the highest paid and signed long term, and it's a stressful time to be an Orioles fan. 

What do you think?

Your question is about more than wins and losses obviously.  Without saying so specifically we are measuring results with expectations.  It is a tough season because of the way expectations come into play.  This year will be an opportunity missed if there is no winning season, no playoffs, no real chance at a World Series.  Personally, its a long long way from being one of the worst seasons and frankly, if you really want to be honest, 1969 and 1979 will probably always be the benchmarks of tough.  And they ended in the World Series.  

But it is a missed opportunity is always tough to stomach.