Buck's TTTP Obsession.

[tntoriole]

16 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Here we go again!

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2017/09/orioles-young-pitchers-lectured-this-morning.html

And on and on and all.

And he told the Pudge story again.

 

 

I don't know Buck, I'd rather they work on commanding their pitches.

Amen.  Hard to worry much about holding runners when balls are flying out of the ballpark regularly.  

[tntoriole]

It is also interesting that Buck will share a clubhouse lecture with the press towards his pitchers...telling them "hey, you need to change your approach and delivery that got you up here, or that won't work in the big leagues."   Buck was saying that Castro essentially cost "us a W."   That is pretty harsh stuff to put out in the press, imho and something Buck would never say about, oh, I don't know, a veteran hitter who just looks at strike three so often that he appears hypnotized by it and that maybe Buck should tell him he "needs to change his approach when he gets to strike two or that won't play here."  

The interesting part about this article to me is not the issue regarding time to the plate, but the fact that Buck is publicly calling out his pitchers in the press.  

[mdbdotcom]

Seems to me that TTTP should be the last step. Get everything else working well and then add the finishing touches. Otherwise, it's like trying to grow the fruit without the tree.

[O's are Legends]

What about the veteran pitchers, do they not get scolded as well? If anyone needs a taking to it's Ubaldo, Miley, Tillman, Hellickson, and who knows, behind the scenes they've probably tried everything but may figure it's a lost cause.

I simply don't understand Buck sharing this with the media. If I'm a young player, I'm thinking, but if my name is a well paid starter I could stay in the rotation even if my era is an embarrassment to all.

Guys like Davis and Trumbo could use a lesson to use the whole field as well, but you know track record, and once again who knows what has been said behind the scenes. That's the point though, don't blast the young guys in public while your expensive vets can't pitch, some of them can't hit and Trumbo can't even catch routine fly balls.

You know what else costs money and victories, not putting in the best pitcher of 2016 in the AL wild card game.

As others have mentioned, I rather they learn to pitch well first at the MLB level, once they feel more comfortable then maybe start working on the sacred TTTP.

The Cubs allowed Arrieta to go back to his routine and placement on the mound which made him successful at TCU, we all know how that turned out.

[thezeroes]

I find this whole thread amusing on several fronts.

My guess is that most do not think of pitchers as athletes and that they can adjust to situations such as a runner on first base.  I also guess that most would believe that TTTP is not an essential element for a pitcher so they would be in favor of these pitchers staying in the full wind up even when a runner is on base since the stolen base is a non-factor.

I also have read in several other threads that the Caught Stealing Percentage is an element that should judge a catcher.  If the TTTP of pitcher exceeds 1.3 seconds the SB goes up considerably.  Over 2.0 the catcher has no chance.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-overrated-value-of-catchers-throwing-arms/

First and second base occupied, less than two out, tie game by the enemy.  Catcher POP Time is above average.  Posters in this thread would not have a problem bringing in a pitcher that has over 1.6 seconds to the plate???  I guess that having each runner move up a base would be OK with them.

 

As it said in the article:

“I wanted them to hear it. I said, ‘Understand, you are not going to pitch up here at ... But I don’t want you to be 1.7 on one pitch and 1.3 on another pitch because, ‘Well, I think he can run.’ That’s bad for your delivery. You can’t have two different deliveries. So they heard about that today.”

This message is delivered at the lowest levels, too. The Orioles don’t wait until the pitchers reach the majors. However, Castro wasn’t in the organization until April.

“They’ve been told that in the minor leagues,” Showalter said, “but until you see it cost you a game or cost you two earned runs, it doesn’t really hit home.

“They’re all athletic and capable. And I said, ‘Understand something, I’ll take you out of the game or not bring you in a game because you can’t hold runners or you can’t field your position if it’s a bunt situation.’

[Can_of_corn]

I would hope he would also take them out of the game or not bring them into the game IF THEY COULDN'T GET GUYS OUT.

And that he should look for the getting guys out part before the holding runners part.

[thezeroes]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I would hope he would also take them out of the game or not bring them into the game IF THEY COULDN'T GET GUYS OUT.

And that he should look for the getting guys out part before the holding runners part.

I would think that if a relief pitcher gets guys out then his TTTP and the catchers POP Times does not matter.  Now if the pitcher without anyone on base has a lousy TTTP it is a non-factor but if he walks someone and has a lousy TTTP along with a fielding deficiency he is liable to be OUT OF THE GAME.

[panick]

So this issue is something that just happened in the last week? And the expanded September rosters issue, too?

I think Showalter is as fed up with the O's as many of us are with him. What's he going to complain about next - the team colors?

It's definitely time for Showalter to go.

[Tx Oriole]

4 hours ago, tntoriole said:

It is also interesting that Buck will share a clubhouse lecture with the press towards his pitchers...telling them "hey, you need to change your approach and delivery that got you up here, or that won't work in the big leagues."   Buck was saying that Castro essentially cost "us a W."   That is pretty harsh stuff to put out in the press, imho and something Buck would never say about, oh, I don't know, a veteran hitter who just looks at strike three so often that he appears hypnotized by it and that maybe Buck should tell him he "needs to change his approach when he gets to strike two or that won't play here."  

The interesting part about this article to me is not the issue regarding time to the plate, but the fact that Buck is publicly calling out his pitchers in the press.  

Yes I agree with you. It's like your boss getting on your ass in front of everyone instead of his office. 

[Otter]

6 hours ago, tntoriole said:

It is also interesting that Buck will share a clubhouse lecture with the press towards his pitchers...telling them "hey, you need to change your approach and delivery that got you up here, or that won't work in the big leagues."   Buck was saying that Castro essentially cost "us a W."   That is pretty harsh stuff to put out in the press, imho and something Buck would never say about, oh, I don't know, a veteran hitter who just looks at strike three so often that he appears hypnotized by it and that maybe Buck should tell him he "needs to change his approach when he gets to strike two or that won't play here."  

The interesting part about this article to me is not the issue regarding time to the plate, but the fact that Buck is publicly calling out his pitchers in the press.  

I was thinking the same thing.  Buck usually goes out of his way to avoid criticizing players in public, whether it was Manny's antics, players not hustling, mental mistakes, etc.  It's obvious he's frustrated with the way the season is ending and that the Yankees series basically has eliminated us from the playoffs.  But that's no excuse to throw some young pitchers under the bus.  Castro isn't the reason we're not going to the playoffs; in fact he's probably the most consistent pitcher we've had.  If Buck wants to call someone out, then he should look in the mirror, or blame the front office, blame ownership, or call out a long list of players who've underperformed this year (Davis, Trumbo, Tillman, Hardy, Britton, Ubaldo, Miley, Gausman, etc, etc, etc).  This rant was classless and petty.

Plus, the TTTP thing is getting very annoying to me and I'm sure it is to many of the pitchers.  Young pitchers getting their first extended taste of the majors need to be worrying more about getting the guy out at the plate instead of stressing about TTTP.  

[Il BuonO]

2 hours ago, Otter said:

Buck usually goes out of his way to avoid criticizing players in public, whether it was Manny's antics, players not hustling, mental mistakes, etc.  It's obvious he's frustrated with the way the season is ending and that the Yankees series basically has eliminated us from the playoffs.  But that's no excuse to throw some young pitchers under the bus.  Castro isn't the reason we're not going to the playoffs; in fact he's probably the most consistent pitcher we've had.  If Buck wants to call someone out, then he should look in the mirror, or blame the front office, blame ownership, or call out a long list of players who've underperformed this year (Davis, Trumbo, Tillman, Hardy, Britton, Ubaldo, Miley, Gausman, etc, etc, etc).

 This rant was classless and petty.

Yes, despite the performance today he continuously ran Jimenez out there when he was awful and he's notoriously inept at holding runners close. 

[SteveA]

The other thing about the obsession with TTTP that is interesting, is that we do not use the stolen base as a weapon.   We don't go after players who can steal, and we steal less than any team in baseball, I believe.

If steals are such a threat that it is critical we avoid allowing them at all costs, you would think we would value them more offensively.   But clearly we don't.

 

[AZRon]

Greg Maddux - 23 years, 744 games, 547 stolen base attempts, 170 caught stealing, 31% caught stealing rate

There are a lot of currently successful pitchers with a caught stealing rate of 30% or less -- check out this site

[Can_of_corn]

19 hours ago, thezeroes said:

I would think that if a relief pitcher gets guys out then his TTTP and the catchers POP Times does not matter.  Now if the pitcher without anyone on base has a lousy TTTP it is a non-factor but if he walks someone and has a lousy TTTP along with a fielding deficiency he is liable to be OUT OF THE GAME.

Unless it's Ubaldo.

[sportsfan8703]

On 9/16/2017 at 5:25 PM, Frobby said:

Cleveland, which has the lowest ERA in the league, has allowed the fewest stolen bases and has the highest CS%.    So it's not like stopping the running game can't be consistent with pitching well.

Funny how having 2-3 cy  young level SP's will improve the team ERA. 

Dont let so many runners on and the SB becomes a non threat. Easier said than done. But to be realistic with this team, we have to have a C that can control the run game. Guys are always on base.