Dan Duquette: "I still think that Gausman can be an elite pitcher"

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

It is increasingly impossible for me to see him becoming a Verlander, Sale, Kluber, Kershaw type of pitcher ever.  

Through their age 26 seasons:

Verlander 65-43, 3.92 ERA (115 ERA+)

Sale 57-40, 2.91 (140)

Kluber 2-5, 5.35 (74)

Kershaw 98-49, 2.48 (151)

Gausman 34-43, 4.18 (101)

Kluber was a rare late bloomer, but most times if you're going to be an ace, by 26 it's already happened.    I'd be very happy if Gausman could churn out sub-4.00 ERA seasons on a fairly regular basis.

[ChuckS]

Expectations may have always been a little out of whack for Gausman because of the good fastball and high draft position, but I always saw him as being a #2/#3 type starter at best.  Not an ace.  Still think he'll settle into that. That's what he has essentially been for one and a half out of the last two years. 

[weams]

58 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think they should bring in specialists to try and see if he can throw some of the lesser used breaking balls like a screwball or knuckle curve.

 

Mike Mussina ProjeKct

[Hallas]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

I alternate between extreme optimism and extreme pessimism with Gausman.     I think his lack of a good breaking ball is almost irrelevant when his command of his fastball and change-up is good, but when his command of those is a little off, he becomes defenseless.    He pitched way too many stinkers this year, instead of keeping the damage under control and giving the team some chance to win.    But there's always hope.

I don't think he located his fastball well enough this season.  I noticed he was wild with it last year but he was just wild enough to keep them off balance.  This year (at least in the first part of the season) he just felt like he didn't really know where his fastball was going.

I think that all the elite pitchers know exactly where their bread-and-butter pitches are going, whether they have 2 great pitches or 4 good ones.  It'd be nice if Gausman developed his breaking pitch into something more than a show-me pitch, but it's really about his fastball command.  He's not going to be a significantly better pitcher if he can't work out his fastball but develops a breaking pitch.  He'll be an ace or very close to it if he improves his fastball command/consistency and more or less keeps the rest of his repertoire.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, weams said:

Mike Mussina ProjeKct

The construKction of a breaking ball.

[LookitsPuck]

Here's the problem w/ Kevin Gausman...and really *any* pitcher that has a limited arsenal of plus pitches: if his split is off, he's cooked. He doesn't have anything to fall back on. We've all seen what can happen to guys that just throw flat fastballs...major leaguers will catch up with them.

When Gausman is *on* (see: his split is working)...he's extremely tough to hit. But when he's not? His 4 seamer just has giddy-up. That's essentially it. 

His curveball is poor and inconsistent as his slider.

Personally I wish that Gausman would try honing his sinker more. Although I feel the same about Dylan Bundy.

 

[esmd]

14 hours ago, Hallas said:

I don't think he located his fastball well enough this season.  I noticed he was wild with it last year but he was just wild enough to keep them off balance.  This year (at least in the first part of the season) he just felt like he didn't really know where his fastball was going.

I think that all the elite pitchers know exactly where their bread-and-butter pitches are going, whether they have 2 great pitches or 4 good ones.  It'd be nice if Gausman developed his breaking pitch into something more than a show-me pitch, but it's really about his fastball command.  He's not going to be a significantly better pitcher if he can't work out his fastball but develops a breaking pitch.  He'll be an ace or very close to it if he improves his fastball command/consistency and more or less keeps the rest of his repertoire.

Yup.  Palmer commented about that in numerous starts of his.  He'd get a guy in a pitchers count, 0-2, 1-2, etc., then throw a waist high FB right down the middle that would get crushed.  At some point, you'd got to wise up, both Gausman and the catcher.

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, esmd said:

Yup.  Palmer commented about that in numerous starts of his.  He'd get a guy in a pitchers count, 0-2, 1-2, etc., then throw a waist high FB right down the middle that would get crushed.  At some point, you'd got to wise up, both Gausman and the catcher.

I doubt it's a matter of wising up.   It's a matter of not throwing the ball where you intended.    No catcher is setting his target right down the middle.    

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I doubt it's a matter of wising up.   It's a matter of not throwing the ball where you intended.    No catcher is setting his target right down the middle.    

Unless Davis is the opposing batter.

[JustanOsguy]

This staff, Gausman included, has had way too many pitching coaches over a rather short period of time. I think every pitcher on that staff has suffered from inconsistent coaching and a lack of a consistent philosophy. The younger pitchers have been effected by it more than the vets, IMHO.

So my question to all of you is this: Can the current Orioles pitching brain trust turn this staff around?

[TouchemAll]

I'll stick with if Gausman wants to take it up a notch he's going to need SOME SORT OF BREAKING BALL when those lack of good command days creep up. 

Till that happens what we've seen is what we'll  get...

[murph]

19 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Walter Johnson only had two pitches.

Fastball and slider?  Tried looking it up, only can find information on his odd mechanics and fastball velocity speculation. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, murph said:

Fastball and slider?  Tried looking it up, only can find information on his odd mechanics and fastball velocity speculation. 

Fastball-curveball, and word is his curveball wasn't anything special.

[Going Underground]

18 hours ago, Frobby said:

Through their age 26 seasons:

Verlander 65-43, 3.92 ERA (115 ERA+)

Sale 57-40, 2.91 (140)

Kluber 2-5, 5.35 (74)

Kershaw 98-49, 2.48 (151)

Gausman 34-43, 4.18 (101)

Kluber was a rare late bloomer, but most times if you're going to be an ace, by 26 it's already happened.    I'd be very happy if Gausman could churn out sub-4.00 ERA seasons on a fairly regular basis.

Good article on Kluber. Gausman has also  never had a winning season in the majors or minors. 4-15 record in the minors.

In May 2012, the Big Ten baseball tournament at Huntington Park in Columbus, Ohio, forced the Class AAA Columbus Clippers to move Corey Kluber’s regular bullpen session to the indoor mound below the stands of their home stadium. And there, hidden from the daylight, on another mundane day in another unspectacular season for another unmemorable right-handed minor-league pitcher, Kluber, then 26, heard these fateful words from his pitching coach:

 

We want you to try throwing a two-seamer.”

Ruben Niebla, the pitching coach, showed Kluber his preferred two-seam fastball grip, and, Niebla recalled this week, Kluber’s first try with the new pitch swept through the strike zone. Do it again, Niebla told Kluber. “And he did it again.” Now try throwing it to the catcher’s glove-side, Niebla told him. “And he dotted it on the corner.”

Two days later In Syracuse, when Kluber made his next start, the new pitch was part of his repertoire. By the end of Kluber’s 6⅔ -inning performance in a 7-1 win, Niebla sidled up to Clippers Manager Mike Sarbaugh and said, “We might have something here. I think Corey is really figuring it out.”

By August 2012, the Cleveland Indians had called Kluber — with his career minor-league record of 45-50 and ERA of 4.40 — up to the big leagues.

 

Kluber’s work ethic and between-starts preparation are legendary around the Indians, to the point where the team has assigned a group of its youngest prospects to follow him around for a few days to do nothing but observe him. Those traits are ones he has possessed as far back as anyone can remember.

 

It’s impossible to overstate how ordinary Kluber was as a pitching prospect for most of his minor-league career. He was undrafted out of Coppell (Tex.) High School and even after a dazzling junior season at Stetson University, lasted until the fourth round in 2007, when the San Diego Padres took him with the 134th overall pick. Baseball America tabbed him as the Padres’ 29th-best prospect that same year, but by the next year, he had fallen out of the top 30, never to appear again.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/an-ordinary-prospect-corey-kluber-found-something-extra-in-a-two-seam-fastball/2017/09/15/146f371e-9a30-11e7-b569-3360011663b4_story.html?utm_term=.850bda9c1d51

 

[Ohfan67]

Thanks for sharing that fun article.