Reasons the O's struggled

[Pat Kelly]

Nice summary by the Sun...Unfortunately Buck has to wear most of this.

[wildcard]

Which article are you referring to? Link?

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Which article are you referring to? Link?

The link is there.    Click on Sun.

[spiritof66]

10 hours ago, Pat Kelly said:

Nice summary by the Sun...Unfortunately Buck has to wear most of this.

[My reply got lost somewhere out in the cyber-universe. I'll post it later. Sorry. ]

[Three Run Homer]

I think all of these were bad decisions, but I don't think any of them made much of a difference to the outcome of the O's season.  They had a bad year because their starting pitching was horrifically bad, because they didn't have plausible solutions in the high minors, and because they were (rightly) unwilling to part with top prospects to get solutions from outside the organization.  The O's wouldn't have made the playoffs if they had put Gabriel Ynoa in the rotation on July 1.  

[Pat Kelly]

29 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I think all of these were bad decisions, but I don't think any of them made much of a difference to the outcome of the O's season.  They had a bad year because their starting pitching was horrifically bad, because they didn't have plausible solutions in the high minors, and because they were (rightly) unwilling to part with top prospects to get solutions from outside the organization.  The O's wouldn't have made the playoffs if they had put Gabriel Ynoa in the rotation on July 1.  

yes agree with all of that, these bad decisions may have cost 3-4 games but still would have missed the postseason.

[El Gordo]

Meh. Minor problems. SP  was the biggie. And that's on PA IMO.

[LookitsPuck]

20 hours ago, El Gordo said:

Meh. Minor problems. SP  was the biggie. And that's on PA IMO.

Peter Angelos didn't sign Wade Miley, Ubaldo Jimenez or go into this season with an injured Chris Tillman and no backup plan due to a depleted farm system void of any impact starting pitching prospects.

Peter Angelos *did* go into this season with the 10th highest payroll with $164m. Right behind the Nationals with $168m. 

Want to talk mismanagement? Talk Duquette and his payroll that had $67m of it tied up in Chris Davis, Hardy, Ubaldo Jimenez, Mark Trumbo and Wade Miley. 

Yes, 41% of the payroll was tied to players that collectively netted -2.8 WAR.

• Chris Davis -0.1
• Mark Trumbo -0.6
• JJ Hardy -0.5
• Ubaldo JImenez -1.3
• Wade Miley -0.3

 

[El Gordo]

37 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Peter Angelos didn't sign Wade Miley, Ubaldo Jimenez or go into this season with an injured Chris Tillman and no backup plan due to a depleted farm system void of any impact starting pitching prospects.

Peter Angelos *did* go into this season with the 10th highest payroll with $164m. Right behind the Nationals with $168m. 

Want to talk mismanagement? Talk Duquette and his payroll that had $67m of it tied up in Chris Davis, Hardy, Ubaldo Jimenez, Mark Trumbo and Wade Miley. 

Yes, 41% of the payroll was tied to players that collectively netted -2.8 WAR.

• Chris Davis -0.1
• Mark Trumbo -0.6
• JJ Hardy -0.5
• Ubaldo JImenez -1.3
• Wade Miley -0.3

 

PA insists on signing Davis and Trumbo but forbids spending on top end FA SP forcing DD to sign the likes of Ubaldo and Miley.

[LookitsPuck]

13 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

PA insists on signing Davis and Trumbo but forbids spending on top end FA SP forcing DD to sign the likes of Ubaldo and Miley.

You don't need to sign high end FA SP. You need to make *smart* acquisitions. The Twins did it w/ Ervin Santana. The Orioles didn't with a very risky Ubaldo, an injured Gallardo and a poor starter like Miley. Those were all Duquette's decisions. There are a ton of options that were smart signings by other organizations the last 6 years. There were also idiotic decisions by Duquette. Losing Miguel Gonzalez. Giving Parker Bridwell away for nothing. Trading Davies for Parra when this organization had no business "buying" for a single player that would never move the needle.

Those aren't Angelos's decisions. Make smarter acquisitions. Don't deplete the farm system. The Indians rotation is:

• Corey Kluber - traded to the Indians from the Padres back in 2011
• Carlos Carrasco - traded to the Indians from the Phillies back in 2009
• Trevor Bauer - traded to the Indians in 2012
• Josh Tomlin - drafted by the Indians in the 19th round in 2006
• Mike Clevinger - traded to the Indians from the Angels in 2014
• Danny Salazar - international free agent signing by the Indians in 2006

There are smart ways to build a rotation. It seems that Duquette has completely whiffed since 2012/2013.

[Can_of_corn]

I don't think the Miley acquisition was that bad.  His underlying numbers indicated that he should have been a solid choice for the back of the rotation at a reasonable cost.  No way to know that he would start walking more than 5 per 9.

[eddie83]

25 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

You don't need to sign high end FA SP. You need to make *smart* acquisitions. The Twins did it w/ Ervin Santana. The Orioles didn't with a very risky Ubaldo, an injured Gallardo and a poor starter like Miley. Those were all Duquette's decisions. There are a ton of options that were smart signings by other organizations the last 6 years. There were also idiotic decisions by Duquette. Losing Miguel Gonzalez. Giving Parker Bridwell away for nothing. Trading Davies for Parra when this organization had no business "buying" for a single player that would never move the needle.

Those aren't Angelos's decisions. Make smarter acquisitions. Don't deplete the farm system. The Indians rotation is:

• Corey Kluber - traded to the Indians from the Padres back in 2011
• Carlos Carrasco - traded to the Indians from the Phillies back in 2009
• Trevor Bauer - traded to the Indians in 2012
• Josh Tomlin - drafted by the Indians in the 19th round in 2006
• Mike Clevinger - traded to the Indians from the Angels in 2014
• Danny Salazar - international free agent signing by the Indians in 2006

There are smart ways to build a rotation. It seems that Duquette has completely whiffed since 2012/2013.

Dan made smart decisions early on and lately hasn't.  How many organizations continually build quality starting staffs in the manner you advocate, especially in the AL East? Most of the time it takes losing to start winning again unless you have a big market club.

The Indians have been a better ran franchise, not saying that.  

[weams]

Because they did not trade for Verlander.  And Quintana and Swarzak.

[Tx Oriole]

On 10/4/2017 at 0:10 AM, Pat Kelly said:

Nice summary by the Sun...Unfortunately Buck has to wear most of this.

Angelos, DD and Buck. Those three are the reasons. IMO