How long before the O's convert Brad Brach to a starter?

[tntoriole]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wasn't doubting they didn't have the highest offer, just that they could have misjudged the market.

You know, like they did when they drastically overpaid Davis

The Yankees played them and the Red Sox to some extent.  Most of the session, it was all Red Sox, Nationals, Orioles with the bidding offers and the Yankees having already spent over 200 million that offseason were said to definitely not be interested at all.    But even before the Yankees came in at the last second,  the Red Sox and Nationals both had offers reported in the Baltimore Sun at 160 million and that Tex would have to give a home town discount for us to sign him.    I believe the Orioles certainly knew they were underbidding the market, that Macphail was not that keen on even the offer they were making at that time, and that Tex would almost certainly not take it and thus they did it for PR purposes, imho, but that is just me, because they did the same pattern with a number of other free agents.    With Davis, I think his agent played them into believing there were other higher offers when there was not and that the old man really likes Davis.  

[weams]

The Yankees are not bidding on any free agents this season. They are getting their payroll under the lux tax. 

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, weams said:

The Yankees are not bidding on any free agents this season. They are getting their payroll under the lux tax. 

How much projected room do they have?

[Tx Oriole]

11 hours ago, ArtVanDelay said:

I can’t be the only one who thinks Cobb and Lynn are both bad ideas.  Both have had TJ, are on the wrong side of 30, and had arguably the worst years of their careers this year (besides 2016 for Cobb when he only started 5 games).  Lynn was probably a little unlucky on his HR/FB%, but he still posted career worst K and BB rates.  

Somehow that doesn't add up to $100MM for me.

Well I would gladly take Lynn or Cobb for the O's if it were up to me. Angelos will never give a pitcher 100 million deal. So we will see washed up 3rd tier pitchers being brought in by DD. I'd give anything if the O's had an owner and GM like the Astros do. That didn't spend 161 million on a washed up used to be homerun hitter when was and is a need. But DD came to the rescue. Signed Gallardo. Phooey! A team run by two brain dead men. A team we all cheered for and put our hearts into. Only to see them wallow in midiocrity until there are changes made. I just don't trust Angelos and DD to do what's right. Sorry for this. But as a fan I'm upset. We could get good pitching. But it just won't happen. 

[weams]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How much projected room do they have?

Depends on Tanaka. But they have about 60~ to build a team. 

Quote

Masahiro Tanaka	29	SP	Pre-Arb	$22,000,000	-	-	$22,000,000	$22,000,000	18.80
Jacoby Ellsbury	35	CF	Vet	$21,142,857	-	-	$21,142,857	$21,142,857	18.07
Aroldis Chapman	30	RP/CL	Vet	$15,000,000	$5,000,000	-	$20,000,000	$20,000,000	17.09
Chase Headley	34	3B	Vet	$13,000,000	-	-	$13,000,000	$13,000,000	11.11
David Robertson	33	RP	Vet	$13,000,000	-	-	$13,000,000	$13,000,000	11.11
Brett Gardner	35	LF	Vet	$11,000,000	$500,000	-	$11,500,000	$11,500,000	9.83
Starlin Castro	28	2B	Vet	$10,000,000	$857,142	-	$10,857,142	$10,857,142	9.28

 

And they are still paying McCann.

[weams]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I like the idea of leaving no stone unturned.   Brach, however, does have a high effort delivery and although he does have 3 pitches, he doesn't seem like a guy who's stuff will hold up over 6 innings.    However, the Orioles are better at developing/finding relievers than starters so I don't dismiss this as a bad idea.   It just won't happen.   I see nothing wrong with the Castro experiment and I'd even be curious to see if Bleier can go 5 or 6 innings.    The Orioles are not going to get a big ticket pitcher.    They are going to wait out the market and go bargain hunting just like always.    Good bet they resign Tillman, get 2-3 AAAA pitchers, and sign the guy (Gallardo/Jimenez/) that no one else wants for a (3/30, 3/45) type contract.

Not much to argue with here. 

[weams]

19 minutes ago, weams said:

The Yankees are not bidding on any free agents this season. They are getting their payroll under the lux tax. 

They are also on the hook for about 7 million in signing bonus for 2018 that count against the cap too. 

[o'sfansince1970]

After reading many threads here on this subject as well as the pitching coach situation and finally the cutter/no cutter issue, it makes me wonder.

The lack of commitment to the minor leagues and latin market make no sense to me. Wouldn't it be logical to have a goal of making the minor system one of the top 5. I don't know how much a director of scouting, a director of operations, minor league pitching director, etc costs but it seems the Os could outspend other teams there more economically than on major league free agents. I've seen the "growing arms versus growing bats" threads and all but at any given time they need half of the rotation to be home grown. Home grown and for real, not just a bargain. Trying to catch lightning in a bottle year after year just isn't going to happen.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, o'sfansince1970 said:

After reading many threads here on this subject as well as the pitching coach situation and finally the cutter/no cutter issue, it makes me wonder.

The lack of commitment to the minor leagues and latin market make no sense to me. Wouldn't it be logical to have a goal of making the minor system one of the top 5. I don't know how much a director of scouting, a director of operations, minor league pitching director, etc costs but it seems the Os could outspend other teams there more economically than on major league free agents. I've seen the "growing arms versus growing bats" threads and all but at any given time they need half of the rotation to be home grown. Home grown and for real, not just a bargain. Trying to catch lightning in a bottle year after year just isn't going to happen.

That is a logical goal for all 30 teams.

[weams]

39 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That is a logical goal for all 30 teams.

And one that requires tanking for a long time and trading all of your good players as soon as they are recognized as good by the other 29 teams. Oh, and tons of money to pay all the players when they do get good. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, weams said:

And one that requires tanking for a long time and trading all of your good players as soon as they are recognized as good by the other 29 teams. Oh, and tons of money to pay all the players when they do get good. 

Not really.

He is talking about breaking the established salary structure for minor league developers. 

From what I recall Stotle said that the Dodgers already did it a few years ago.

I think there is some sort of gentleman's agreement in place to keep those costs under control.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

I like the idea of leaving no stone unturned.   Brach, however, does have a high effort delivery and although he does have 3 pitches, he doesn't seem like a guy who's stuff will hold up over 6 innings.    However, the Orioles are better at developing/finding relievers than starters so I don't dismiss this as a bad idea.   It just won't happen.   I see nothing wrong with the Castro experiment and I'd even be curious to see if Bleier can go 5 or 6 innings.    The Orioles are not going to get a big ticket pitcher.    They are going to wait out the market and go bargain hunting just like always.    Good bet they resign Tillman, get 2-3 AAAA pitchers, and sign the guy (Gallardo/Jimenez/) that no one else wants for a (3/30, 3/45) type contract.

So if 3/45 is as high as the O's go, who is out of reach and who is the O's best target?

Do you agree that Arrieta, Darvish, Cobb and Lynn probably get more than 3/45?

What about Cashner? Chatwood may get 4 years. Does that put him out for reach?

[weams]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Anyone who signs before January 1, is probably out of reach.   Arrieta and Darvish easily get more than 3/45.   No doubt they get very big contracts.

Cobb and Lynn get better than 3/45.

Cashner is scary.   Some team may overpay for one good season.    I have no idea what he commands on the market.    I'm afraid Duquette makes a big mistake by going after him if the market is cold on him.

Chatwood is another guy who might interest the Orioles and be in their budget.    However, at age 27, and after two decent seasons in Colorado, I think their will be competition for his services that likely pushes the O's out and drives his price past 3/45.

I like Chatwood. But I only want someone who has deception and good spin rate. Someone with excellent off-speed stuff. 

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Anyone who signs before January 1, is probably out of reach.   Arrieta and Darvish easily get more than 3/45.   No doubt they get very big contracts.

Cobb and Lynn get better than 3/45.

Cashner is scary.   Some team may overpay for one good season.    I have no idea what he commands on the market.    I'm afraid Duquette makes a big mistake by going after him if the market is cold on him.

Chatwood is another guy who might interest the Orioles and be in their budget.    However, at age 27, and after two decent seasons in Colorado, I think their will be competition for his services that likely pushes the O's out and drives his price past 3/45.

I agree.   I think because of his age and the market Chatwood gets at least 4 years.  4/50 is not out of reach.   That is what Jimenez got from the O's.  I don't know if Peter will do that again.

Cashner seems to have injuries often that lowers his starts and innings. .    What don't you like about him?

[MDtransplant757]

Brach hasn't started since college, around 10 years ago. That isn't happening. I don't see it happening for Castro either. Maybe if they have Scott and Long piggyback off each other like in Bowie, this makes sense. But Idk.