No more excuses, it's time for Williams to go

[Eight]

Williams is a lazy recruiter and it's now coming back to bite him hard. Three out of four years in the NIT and we're looking at an even worse team next year and probably the year after. This program is in a shambles and it's ashamed there are so many people blind to it.

Maryland should be an elite program. Maybe not Duke and North Carolina year in and year out, but no way they should be out of the to 25 year in and year out.

People can make excuses all they like. The same people who point to the national championship were the same people who pointed to Billick winning a Super Bowl. Just because you win it all once doesn't give you an unlimted amount of stinkitude.

I have no problem with you supporters. I just happen to think you are sadly wrong, but I'll try not to remind you when the Terps stink it up again and you eventually realize your mistakes...

The Billick comparison would be more apt if Billick had more than a tiny fraction of the success that Gary did or if he was as responsible for that success as, say, Ozzie Newsome was.

[Eight]

Well I disagreed with you on Billick but I mostly agree here. I'm not quite to the point of firing Gary yet but like I said I do think the sooner he goes the better.

I actually see a lot of comparisons between Billick and Gary. They both have abrasive personalities and egos. Both led their teams from the depths to championships and are the best coaches their franchises/teams have ever had. However, they both have done little since their titles and have had one glaring flaw in their duties as a coach, Billick with his offense and Gary with his recruiting. It's weird how so many were ready to can Billick but most everyone wants Gary to stay.

College sports are worlds different than the pros. In the NFL, except for maybe the Cardinals, you know that EVERY team is going to be competitive enough to have a shot at a championship within a relatively small amount of time. In college, even in major conferences, that expectation isn't there for many, many teams. Being in the top ten in the country happens maybe once every 15 years, if that.

Not to mention, Billick's flaw (offense) was compensated by having a good GM get him good defensive players who were coached by an excellent Defensive Coordinator. Gary's flaw (recruiting; and it wasn't a huge flaw before 2004 or so) was mitigated by what he did - excellent coaching as well as getting guys that work with his system.

I don't see the comparison between the two. One is an icon who should be in the Hall of Fame one day. The other is a coach who got a ring but never sustained a consistent level of success over a period of time.

[ccbird]

College sports are worlds different than the pros. In the NFL, except for maybe the Cardinals, you know that EVERY team is going to be competitive enough to have a shot at a championship within a relatively small amount of time. In college, even in major conferences, that expectation isn't there for many, many teams. Being in the top ten in the country happens maybe once every 15 years, if that.

Not to mention, Billick's flaw (offense) was compensated by having a good GM get him good defensive players who were coached by an excellent Defensive Coordinator. Gary's flaw (recruiting; and it wasn't a huge flaw before 2004 or so) was mitigated by what he did - excellent coaching as well as getting guys that work with his system.

I don't see the comparison between the two. One is an icon who should be in the Hall of Fame one day. The other is a coach who got a ring but never sustained a consistent level of success over a period of time.

See I completely disagree. I don't believe Gary has done a better job overall than Billick in each of their tenures. Like I said it baffles me how much people want to discredit what Billick did and praise what Gary has done. It is simply harder to coach in the NFL.

For one, with the competitve balance it is harder to sustain any kind of dominance or maintain a level of success in the NFL. That makes it much harder for coaches overall and it usually means a shorter shelf life. Billick being here for 10 years is equal to a much longer run in basketball. It is much easier to get to the top and maintain that level of dominance in college basketball especially when you have the advantages that Gary has had of being in the premier conference, with a state of the art complex and a NC banner. That gives you a built in advantage and prestige where you shouldn't have to rebuild but reload with top recruits. IN football, with a salary cap you are going to have to rebuild at some point.

You say Ozzie gave Billick his talent and players which is true but Gary is solely responsible for his talent. So, while you may give Gary more credit for his NC run than Billick and his SB run you also have to give Gary most of the blame for his poor roster management in recent years where Billick isn't completely responsible for what he has to work with. I've always been an advocate that Billick never had a quality QB to work with which in some ways wasn't his fault.

I mean yes basketball and football are pretty different. Beyond the obvious tihings,football is much more of a team game and there is much more credit that can be passed around in pro football with assistant coaches and Gm's. But man to man on the things you can compare or contrast I do see some parallels between the two coaches and think there career paths have a bunch of similarities.

[Eight]

See I completely disagree. I don't believe Gary has done a better job overall than Billick in each of their tenures. Like I said it baffles me how much people want to discredit what Billick did and praise what Gary has done. It is simply harder to coach in the NFL.

For one, with the competitve balance it is harder to sustain any kind of dominance or maintain a level of success in the NFL. That makes it much harder for coaches overall and it usually means a shorter shelf life. Billick being here for 10 years is equal to a much longer run in basketball. It is much easier to get to the top and maintain that level of dominance in college basketball especially when you have the advantages that Gary has had of being in the premier conference, with a state of the art complex and a NC banner. That gives you a built in advantage and prestige where you shouldn't have to rebuild but reload with top recruits. IN football, with a salary cap you are going to have to rebuild at some point.

I mean yes basketball and football are pretty different. Beyond the obvious tihings,football is much more of a team game and there is much more credit that can be passed around in pro football with assistant coaches and Gm's. But man to man on the things you can compare or contrast I do see some parallels between the two coaches and think there career paths have a bunch of similarities.

But that's the point. Gary didn't inherit a state of the art facility and a National Championship. He inherited sanctions and Cole Field House which could best be described as venerable. I agree Gary gets the blame for poor roster management in recent years. But the larger point is that he gets credit where Billick doesn't for building all those Sweet Sixteen teams, all those teams that finished top 10 in the polls, the two Final Four teams. It's easy to say teams can just reload in college hoops, but that's not the case outside of UNC and Duke.

As you say, NFL coaches do last a shorter time, but from my vantage point, that's a symptom of their roles. They have less responsibility than a college coach making them more replaceable. They have less authority in choosing personnel and delegate more of their responsibility to assistants. Not that that doesn't happen in college hoops, but the head coach is much more intimately involved in the various facets of the game.

I just can't buy that they're on equal footing. During his tenure here, Gary was one of the ten best coaches in the country. Super Bowl or not, I won't say the same for Billick.

[Ruzious]

Williams is a lazy recruiter and it's now coming back to bite him hard. Three out of four years in the NIT and we're looking at an even worse team next year and probably the year after. This program is in a shambles and it's ashamed there are so many people blind to it.

Maryland should be an elite program. Maybe not Duke and North Carolina year in and year out, but no way they should be out of the to 25 year in and year out.

People can make excuses all they like. The same people who point to the national championship were the same people who pointed to Billick winning a Super Bowl. Just because you win it all once doesn't give you an unlimted amount of stinkitude.

I have no problem with you supporters. I just happen to think you are sadly wrong, but I'll try not to remind you when the Terps stink it up again and you eventually realize your mistakes...

That's fair. I don't give Billick full credit for that SB, because he was an offensive coach, and the offense on that team was probably the worst of any SB championship in history. I'm not sure how much he had to do with their defense and special teams. Besides, Billick bashing is a lot more fun than Gary bashing.

[Mackus]

This team is way more talented than the Sr year Rhoads, Hipp, Simpkins, and Jr year Booth team… way more talented than the Sarunus/Elliott squad…. I think they are fairly comparable to the Sr year Blake / Nicholas team.

I disagree with all of that. Completely. Rhoades and Booth were both better players than our best player (Greivis) and we can't match the rest of the talent that those teams had.

Those teams were almost all Sweet 16 type teams. Or at the very least NCAA tournament teams.

This team is not.

[DuffMan]

Tony,

I respect you, and for the most part usually agree with you… but this is your worst idea since saying the O's should not trade Rodrigo and Julio for Beltran.

We need to see what happens in the next month… does Mosley get his qualifying score in his 3rd attempt?

Kim appears to be coming.. Does that become 100% official?

Does the team sign a player like Darden, someone athletic that can shot-block, and rebound off the bench, to help the post-rotation?

Regardless, I like the guys coming back.. And I scoff at the notion that this is the least talented Terp of Gary's tenure…

This team is way more talented than the Sr year Rhoads, Hipp, Simpkins, and Jr year Booth team… way more talented than the Sarunus/Elliott squad…. I think they are fairly comparable to the Sr year Blake / Nicholas team.

I know Gary likes what he has coming back as well… As big a Gary fan as I am… I do think this team is pretty good, and I expect a successful season where they Dance.

If they do not, I would not be surprised to see Gary step down…

How about letting the season play-out?

I'm pretty sure those teams you just mentioned went to the NCAA tournament. This team will be lucky to make the NIT.

[Ruzious]

Just throwing this out there, but - Is there any chance Gilchrist ends up staying? Assuming the NCAA doesn't honor his request for eligibility next season if he transfers, it just doesn't make sense for him to transfer. And from what I've heard, the NCAA is very unlikely to grant his request. Dude has changed his mind so many times - maybe he changes it again and decides to make the sensible choice - going to MD. Does that make sense, or am I not understanding the strange situation?

[Mackus]

Just throwing this out there, but - Is there any chance Gilchrist ends up staying? Assuming the NCAA doesn't honor his request for eligibility next season if he transfers, it just doesn't make sense for him to transfer. And from what I've heard, the NCAA is very unlikely to grant his request. Dude has changed his mind so many times - maybe he changes it again and decides to make the sensible choice - going to MD. Does that make sense, or am I not understanding the strange situation?

I'm very confused about the whole situation as well, but my guess would be he's definitely gone.

I think he ends up at a JuCo.

[Mackus]

Stoner, no way is this a top-15 team even with Mosley, Kim, and Darden.

And no way is this team more talented than any of the 3 teams you mentioned. Those teams were all legit NCAA teams. This team is not. It'd take a minor miracle to make the tournament. We've only got one impact player. Everybody else is a role player at best. I'd be surprised if anyone on the team other than Vasquez gets any votes for an All-ACC team this year. I think Vasquez will be the only guy considered in the top 20 or so players in the ACC.

[Mackus]

I don't think Holden would have the physical ability to handle Burney… Blake is better than Hayes, but comparable… Vasquez does more things well than Nicholas…

Up to here you had an argument, but here is where it falls apart.

Nicholas and Blake were both comparable to Vasquez. I think all three of them (Jr year Vasquez) will have about the same impact. Probably 2nd team All-ACC. But Hayes is no where near as good as the other three, so there is a huge gap between Nicholas and Blake and Vasquez and Hayes.

And I'd be very surprised if Burney's soph year, after barely playing his freshamn year, was better than Holden's Sr year. Holden had been a big part of back-to-back Final 4 teams.

[inmn]

CR,

You are really straining your credibility with these wild comparisions.

I won't even go through them but to compare Hayes and Milbourne to Sarunas and Profit-who both had pro careers and in the former a very good one....the 95-96 team with 8 quality recruits cannot even be compared!!

They return about 2ppg and 2 rebounds per game at the 4 and 5 with no help coming in. Darden is a top 250 6'7" shot blocker-how often do these guys contribute-I can remember one in 40 years of watching the ACC (D Lewis). Kim is 170 pounds!! Your analysis even contradicts Gary's assessment at the end of the year-they were the slowest and weakest in the ACC. Next year they are still slow and even weaker. There is no size, shot blockers or rebounders other than Burney. Milbourne can't play the 4 and Bowie can't handle well enough for GW to play him at the 1. I am not sure they are as bad talent wise as the 2-3 year post Wade teams, but you have no credibility if you think this is a sweet 16 team after 3/4 NIT's, losing your key inside players with no replacements.

[Mackus]

Junior Hayes vs Senior Blake..

Hayes - As a Soph, he avg 9.9ppg, 4.5 assts to 2.4 turnovers... Did shoot 42.7 from the field... 39.2% from 3... 85% from the line...

Did have 15 games in double figures, including big games against:

Illinois : 18pts, 4 assists, 4 three's

UVA: 15pts, 9 assists, 3 three's

@GaTech: 14pts, 8 assists

NCST: 14pts

@Miami: 14pts, 3 three's

Blake - Great PG, 2 FF's… an assassin as a shooter late in games… As a Senior, he avg 11.5ppg, 7.12 asst to 3.19 turnovers.. Did shoot 41% from the field... 41% from 3, 82% from the line..

Blake as a Senior was better than Hayes as a Soph… but not heads and tails.. And that difference will be even less now, when it is Senior Blake vs Jr Hayes.

Junior Vasquez vs Senior Nicholas

Vasquez - 17ppg, 6.8 assts, 5.7 boards, 43.2% from the field, 30.9% from 3, 78.2% from the line, 4.4 turnovers, 1.4 steals as a Soph… All-ACC…

Nicholas - 17.8ppg, 2.67 assts, 3.8 boards, 44% from the field, 41% from 3, 85% from the line, 2.1 turnovers, 1.2 steals as a Senior.. 2 FF's.. A number of daggers.. All-ACC..

Great year from Drew.. Really a great career… but Vasquez was basically had an equal or better year as a Soph.. And should certainly be better as a Jr.

I just can't more completely disagree with both of your conclusions here. Stats can't tell the whole story, especially when comparing different teams who's players had to take on different roles.

Blake was a far better player than Hayes is. Its just a fact. Blake is still playing in the NBA. Hayes has no shot. There is no way any of Hayes' years will ever touch any of Blake's, and certainly not his senior year when he really rounded out his game as a scoring option.

Vasquez and Nicholas is a closer comparison. But I still think Nicholas was better. He wasn't asked to do much his first 3 years, but he really stepped it up his senior year. I think Vasquez can match him as a scorer/slasher, and probably even better at that, but Nicholas laps him as a shooter and in the clutch.

[DuffMan]

Hayes is going out to Portland this year, and spending a week working Blakes camp, and getting 1 on 1 instruction… everything that physically made Blake a pro - ability to hit an open shot, lead a team, handle the ball, court vision… those are all things Hayes has… we will see if Blake's desire/moxey rubs off on Hayes.

1 week at Blake camp doesn't make him as good as Blake? The part I bolded is something that can't be taught. You either have it or you don't and Hayes doesn't. Hayes hasn't shown me anything that would lead me to believe that he could lead this team and run the offense the way Blake did. I would stop the comparison between these two after mentioning that they can both hit the open shot.

[DuffMan]

There were plenty of Terp fans during Blake's Soph season that complained about him...

That team got hot, and made the Final Four… but if you remember the St Valentine's Massacre that year, plenty of Terp fans were stating the roster was horrible, and not capable of winning… and that Gary had to go…

You were comparing this coming years roster (which is still up in the air) to other exact years and for your one comparison it was Hayes as what we can expect this fall as a junior to Blake's senior year. But now your talking about his sophmore year. In an earlier post you said this....

You are looking back with revisionist history… you are talking about the players they became, vs the players they were at the time… that is an important distinction.

That being said I don't think you can use Blakes sophomore season as an argument when the intent was to compare his senior year to Hayes upcoming Junior year.