No more excuses, it's time for Williams to go

[Ruzious]

Ok, although I don't agree, that's a valid assessment. I just get frustrated with the people who give Williams a lifetime pass.

Let me ask you though, what would need to happen in this next season for you to be for Williams being shown the door? NIT? Losing record in ACC?

I think most of us agree we're looking at a tough season next year, so what has to to happen for you to finally get on the Gary needs to go train?

You can't make an inteligent quantitative decision like that when you don't know what the quality of the other ACC schools' teams will be and what injuries and luck (good or bad) the Terps might have. You also have to look on how the future looks at the end of the season. There are too many unknown variables. How those variables turn out = reality; not excuses.

[Hallas]

Let me preface this by saying that I can't believe what I'm about to type. I am not that old (not old enough for the Len Bias thing to have an effect on me). Nonetheless I remember, very vividly, what Williams brought the basketball team back from, and I believe that he is the best basketball coach that Maryland will ever have, at least during my lifetime. That said...

There is something amiss in College Park. Williams has recruited NBA-level talent from 1989 until about 4 years ago. I simply don't buy into the notion that he is a lazy recruiter. A lot of hype is made over how he turned players like Dixon and Baxter into the players they are. But he also snagged Blake, who if I recall was highly recruited. And Wilcox. And before that, he had players like Joe Smith. Hipp. Francis. Morris. The list goes on. You could argue that Patsos played a role in recruiting, but Williams was able to recruit Walt and field a serviceable team in the face of NCAA sanctions, all before Patsos' time. The fact that he can't do so now is simply unfathomable given what he's done in the past.

I believe that his (non)relationship with Debbie Yow is finally affecting his ability to do his work. If that's the case, then, as much as it pains me to say this, either Yow or Williams must go. Since Yow is technically Williams' boss, and has the power of public relations on her side, I have the sense that it will be Williams that goes.

Mark my words: if Williams is the one that goes, then University of Maryland basketball will not approach the level of success from the early 2000s anytime in the next 5 years. I strongly believe that Williams is up there with the great coaches of college ball, and there is absolutely no way in my mind that our current swoon is the result of a lack of effort or skill on Williams' part. But there is a problem in College Park, and unfortunately if fixing that problem involves getting rid of Gary Williams, then so be it. But I also know that my dedication to Maryland basketball will be significantly tempered if he is let go.

[Golgo]

But he also snagged Blake, who if I recall was highly recruited. And Wilcox. And before that, he had players like Joe Smith. Hipp. Francis. Morris. The list goes on. You could argue that Patsos played a role in recruiting, but Williams was able to recruit Walt and field a serviceable team in the face of NCAA sanctions, all before Patsos' time.

Actually Billy Hahn was the big recruiter for Gary (before Patsos). He is credited with recruiting Williams, Smith and Francis (among others). I think losing Hahn (and Patsos soon after) has had the largest impact on the program.

I'm sure there are lots of other issues involved, but I wonder why Hahn wasn't brought back after he was fired from La Salle? He didnt leave LaSalle with the best publicity. He is at WVU now.

[beaner]

Actually Billy Hahn was the big recruiter for Gary (before Patsos). He is credited with recruiting Williams, Smith and Francis (among others). I think losing Hahn (and Patsos soon after) has had the largest impact on the program.

I'm sure there are lots of other issues involved, but I wonder why Hahn wasn't brought back after he was fired from La Salle? He didnt leave LaSalle with the best publicity. He is at WVU now.

Art Perry signed Smith, who wasn't even the highest rated player on his High school team. Perry went to Virginia to recruit Ed Geth, who ended up sitting on Coach Smith's bench in Chapel Hill for four years while Smith became a monster. Joe Smith is the best example of a guy who thrived under Gary Williams. He and Dixon both went from decent prospects to NBA players.

I've given my outsider view on Gary throughout these threads so I won't go into it again. Recruiting was never his strength, never has been, never will be. I count four McDonald's All Americans that he's recruited over the years. Jimmy Jackson, Danny Miller, Travis Garrison, and Mike Jones. It's not like he's been bringing these type of prospects in before the last few years, he never did. So to say it's the recent recruiting is just not logical.

[weemnj]

Gary had almost always delegated recruiting----losing his ass't coaches at an increased rate since the natty caused the recruiting slump------along with the situation alluded to in Hallas's middle paragraphs,,,and Yow is a very formidable roadblock.

[Hallas]

Art Perry signed Smith, who wasn't even the highest rated player on his High school team. Perry went to Virginia to recruit Ed Geth, who ended up sitting on Coach Smith's bench in Chapel Hill for four years while Smith became a monster. Joe Smith is the best example of a guy who thrived under Gary Williams. He and Dixon both went from decent prospects to NBA players.

I've given my outsider view on Gary throughout these threads so I won't go into it again. Recruiting was never his strength, never has been, never will be. I count four McDonald's All Americans that he's recruited over the years. Jimmy Jackson, Danny Miller, Travis Garrison, and Mike Jones. It's not like he's been bringing these type of prospects in before the last few years, he never did. So to say it's the recent recruiting is just not logical.

I think it's largely because of who else is in the conference that he cannot recruit the McD all-Americans. There's only so much room in the ACC for elite-level teams... I don't know if Williams is really to blame for his inability to snag the best high-school recruits, though I will admit that he probably doesn't help himself as much as he could.

[beaner]

I think it's largely because of who else is in the conference that he cannot recruit the McD all-Americans. There's only so much room in the ACC for elite-level teams... I don't know if Williams is really to blame for his inability to snag the best high-school recruits, though I will admit that he probably doesn't help himself as much as he could.

I think you may have misinterpreted my post. I am a Gary supporter (even as a Carolina fan). I think his strength is developing players, whether they were highly recruited or not. By pointing out his lack of McDonalds AA guys, I was just saying that I strongly disagree with those who say his recruiting has slipped recently. He's bringing in the same level player he has since he left American for Boston College. From John Bagley and Dana Barros, to Jamaal Brown and Chris Jent, to Joe Smith and Juan Dixon, I've always felt Williams strength was taking that "B" level prospect and turning them into NBA players.

In fact he's had less success with the few McDonald's guys he's recruited. You can't count Jimmy Jackson because he didn't get to coach him, but Miller, Garrison, and Jones were nice players but far from what experts projected for them out of High School.

[Hallas]

I think you may have misinterpreted my post. I am a Gary supporter (even as a Carolina fan). I think his strength is developing players, whether they were highly recruited or not. By pointing out his lack of McDonalds AA guys, I was just saying that I strongly disagree with those who say his recruiting has slipped recently. He's bringing in the same level player he has since he left American for Boston College. From John Bagley and Dana Barros, to Jamaal Brown and Chris Jent, to Joe Smith and Juan Dixon, I've always felt Williams strength was taking that "B" level prospect and turning them into NBA players.

In fact he's had less success with the few McDonald's guys he's recruited. You can't count Jimmy Jackson because he didn't get to coach him, but Miller, Garrison, and Jones were nice players but far from what experts projected for them out of High School.

I'm not doubting you there re: Williams' strengths in player development, I'm just adding that Williams has a strike against him in the ACC because of the existence of two strong programs with very rich histories.

[inmn]

It has been shown here many, many times GW's best teams were his most highly ranked recruited teams. Yes he is wonderful at developing players, but when he has gotten the top 50 or 75 players his teams were much better. On the NC team alone Wilcox was a top 25 guy; Blake, Holden, Baxter, and Mouton (transfer) were all top 75 or better-Randle was a top 25 JUCO.

Who would you rather have Baxter, Wilcox, Holden and Randle or Burney/Dupree/Neal?

Md will not make the NCAA's this year and most likely not next year.

You can make all the excuses you want: assistants (I agree on this, but he was the guy that hired Adams), Yow (this has some merit, but he won the NC under Yow-and no one else has a problem with her), admissions (this is out this with Evans/Darden). Either way GW is responsible; he is paid for a premium product, he won under the same circumstances......no more excuses!!

The notion that they can't recruit premium players because of UNC and Duke doesn't work when you look at ACC history let alone what Wake, Tech and State have done. Are you saying Beasley, Durant, Gay, and others were afraid of Duke and UNC???

BTW it appears they have already missed on their two self professed biggest targets for next year: Dawkins (Duke) and Taylor. New year, same old story-maybe they can start scouting the JUCO's early......

[Eight]

Dawkins is a class of 2010 player who was not very likely to go anywhere but Duke.

[inmn]

Dawkins is a class of 2010 player who was not very likely to go anywhere but Duke.

Everyone but Md is in 2010

[Eight]

No idea what that means.

[inmn]

No idea what that means.

Sorry, got interrupted in the middle-a reference to Md still trying to fill this year's class. My understanding is that Dawkins was personally recruited by GW, so I don't think Md considered him a lock. It is good to see GW involved with underclassmen.

[Pedro Cerrano]

This article is very telling...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=3469331

[BaltimoreTerp]

This article is very telling...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=3469331

Yeah, it tells us that the AAU coaches in the area don't like him :laughlol:

Between the almost-exclusive use of (probably) anti-Williams sources, and quality research like this:

Barring late summer additions, Sean Mosley -- whose academic status was tenuous but is now expected to qualify, according to the Baltimore Sun -- will be the lone member of Maryland's freshman class.

...ignoring Kim (I'll give a pass on Goings, since that just came about), it gives me questions about the overall motivation behind the article. But most of it can't really be argued (especially since it is all a re-hash of what we already know, though of course not written for the superfan).

Still interesting to see what happens between Yow and Williams, especially if (when :laughlol: ) there is a resurgance in the program.