Buck lays into Mountcastle during "reassignment to minor camp" and possible new position?

[weams]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I've had the impression that we've preached aggressiveness at the minor league level.    This may be a case of mixed messages.  Personally, I agree with Buck's message.

You can't walk off the Eastern Shore. 

[interloper]

Also let's please trade this guy for pitching. Attitude issues plus discipline issues plus can't defend. But teams will want this guy. 

[Dark Helmet]

23 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Old dogs, new tricks versus new dogs, old tricks.  Hard to tell 30 year old big league veteran millionaires much.  21 year old that wants to make it...different audience, differently message.   Buck would, on some level, enjoy being a minor league development person. 

I don't disagree with Bucks advice to Mountcastle, I just wish he'd hold his veterans more accountable. I know he respects them, but as you said they are making millions to perform at a certain level.

[LookitsPuck]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Buck is a lot more likely to talk tough with kids in the minors or rookies than he is his vets.

As well he should.

The thing about the kids in the minors, they *can* change. The thing about the vets? They are who they are. At that point, you can't change them much.

[tntoriole]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm not sure any of us knows what Buck says to his vets behind close doors. Buck doesn't make his talks with vets very public because he respects their professionalism. He also rarely makes these talks public unless he feels he needs to make a point.

Notice he said he told Hays the same thing, but didn't go public with it until the Mountcastle talk. I can guarantee that Hays' reaction to Bucks advice was 180 degrees different than Mountcastle's.

And he reinforced the message to Hays by letting the public know that Hays got the same message.   Subtle, but effective.   Buck is very good at recognizing what different people at different stages and different levels need.   Like Crash Davis advice to the minor league manager..."they are just kids....scare them" which leads to the "lollygagging" tirade.     Buck is tougher on rookies and minor leaguers because they need it  (and there is still a whiff of the Billy Martin school that comes out when Buck is reacting to a minor leaguer....like "hey rookie, you are a rookie, you can follow this or you can laugh about it and stay on the bus in Norfolk for the rest of your life."  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, interloper said:

Also let's please trade this guy for pitching. Attitude issues plus discipline issues plus can't defend. But teams will want this guy. 

Right, they tell the kids to "learn what you can't hit" fostering aggression only to have Buck tell them something else while he stays silent about the plate discipline issues a number of his vets have.

 

[LookitsPuck]

3 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

I don't disagree with Bucks advice to Mountcastle, I just wish he'd hold his veterans more accountable. I know he respects them, but as you said they are making millions to perform at a certain level.

The thing about his veterans? They're largely given to him by Duquette. It's not like he can do much aside from yell behind closed doors up the chain. What are you going to tell Adam Jones to do...stop being aggressive? At some point yelling at a veteran is either going to make him disgruntled and/or make him try some things that will make him less successful in other areas. I'm sure Buck is very strategic on when/where to talk to his veterans. 

With minor leaguers, he can have more of an impact on them. He ultimately holds most of the power with whether they get called up or not. So if he's saying to work on something, they better work on something. Whether it ends up impacting that not remains to be seen. Is he going to be a DJ Stewart type or a clubhouse cancer type who won't change to get better? We'll see.

Aside from his TTP nonsense, I generally like Buck as a manager. We're lucky to have him.

[interloper]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Right, they tell the kids to "learn what you can't hit" fostering aggression only to have Buck tell them something else while he stays silent about the plate discipline issues a number of his vets have.

 

Disagree with your premise here. 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Old dogs, new tricks versus new dogs, old tricks.  Hard to tell 30 year old big league veteran millionaires much.  21 year old that wants to make it...different audience, differently message.   Buck would, on some level, enjoy being a minor league development person. 

Manny and Schoop are old dogs now?

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Also let's please trade this guy for pitching. Attitude issues plus discipline issues plus can't defend. But teams will want this guy. 

It's too early to say this kid has attitude problems. More accurately, he needs to mature some. There are things he needs to work on which is what the minor leagues are all about. Now would I move him in teh right deal for the right pitcher, sure, but then again, you can say that about just about every player on the team and in the system.

His bat has more potential impact then anyone in the system and on the team right now outside of Schoop and Machado. Let's not start packing his bags. Young men don't always react how we would like them to. They are learning and hopefully he learns by his mistakes. Did he probably make a good impression, nope. Can he fix that? Absolutely. 

[Why Not?]

6 minutes ago, weams said:

You can't walk off the Eastern Shore. 

You CAN, it just takes longer (and you save four bucks)

 

[interloper]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

It's too early to say this kid has attitude problems. More accurately, he needs to mature some. There are things he needs to work on which is what the minor leagues are all about. Now would I move him in teh right deal for the right pitcher, sure, but then again, you can say that about just about every player on the team and in the system.

His bat has more potential impact then anyone in the system and on the team right now outside of Schoop and Machado. Let's not start packing his bags. Young men don't always react how we would like them to. They are learning and hopefully he learns by his mistakes. Did he probably make a good impression, nope. Can he fix that? Absolutely. 

Yeah, "attitude" was perhaps not the right word. But he needs to take his game seriously. It's less about changing his game and more about being receptive and taking his faults seriously. 

[SteveA]

6 minutes ago, weams said:

You can't walk off the Eastern Shore. 

Except that one Sunday in May when they do the Bay Bridge Walk.

[tntoriole]

3 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

I don't disagree with Bucks advice to Mountcastle, I just wish he'd hold his veterans more accountable. I know he respects them, but as you said they are making millions to perform at a certain level.

Accountable is an elusive term.   Motivation and performance are more the goals in the midst of a season.  The reality is Buck realizes "for better or worse, these are the guys that I have for this season.  Yes, I wish they were better at X, but they are not better at X, they are  better at Y and that is the way it is."  Do I get on them and now they are not only no better at X AND now they are not as good at Y either or do I recognize that I need to do what I can to support their performances, not try to make them into something that they are not?.    The accountable part I put almost completely on the GM and the owner that assembles the squad much more than the manager.  

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, they tell the kids to "learn what you can't hit" fostering aggression only to have Buck tell them something else while he stays silent about the plate discipline issues a number of his vets have.

 

You keep saying this, but you literally have no idea if it's true or not because it doesn't come out in the press. If you think Buck never says anything to his veteran players behind close doors you are wrong. That I know for a fact. 

As for plate discipline with veteran players, they usually are who they are after a few seasons in the majors. It's not like you are going to have a talk with Adam Jones and he's going to come out and walk 90 times next year. The Orioles have a lot of the same kinds of hitters on the team. It's certainly not because Buck has or hasn't had talks with them about their plate discipline.