Sisco is playing himself off the 25-man in today's game (Gamethreadish)

[weams]

If good faith is the object, legislate it. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, weams said:

If good faith is the object, legislate it. 

They did.  Problem is proving it.  My solution solves the issue.

[weams]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

They did.  Problem is proving it.  My solution solves the issue.

Get rid of the incentive to operate in bad faith. I do not expect businesses to show moral compass. 

[weams]

As you know, the union is concerned about union members. 

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Some teams are not operating in good faith.  Make a case that Acuna isn't ML ready.  

What's good faith?  That you call up a player whenever he's ready and leave him up unless he tanks?  Then don't incentivize teams to play service time games, don't leave loopholes in the rules, don't allow it.  If the rules allow it and there's an advantage to be had someone will do it.  And this isn't some moral quandary - no one ever promised a prospect that he'd only spend a certain amount of time in the International League, and they'd hit arb and free agency by X date. 

I rant and rave all the time about the bad faith of teams dumping all their quality players so that they can lose 100 games a year but maybe win again in 2021.  And I'm constantly reminded that that's just baseball. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, weams said:

If good faith is the object, legislate it. 

Not realistic.    What’re we going to do, have dozens of arbitrations to determine whether a team’s decision to bring a guy up or send him down was made in good faith?

I think a more realistic thing might be to say that whenever a player is called up on or before June 15 and spends the rest of the season with the major league team, it will count as a full season of service time.    I really don’t see a team waiting until June 16 to call up a guy who is clearly ready to help the team on Opening Day.   2 weeks is one thing; 10 weeks is something else.  

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Not realistic.    What’re we going to do, have dozens of arbitrations to determine whether a team’s decision to bring a guy up or send him down was made in good faith?

I think a more realistic thing might be to say that whenever a player is called up on or before June 15 and spends the rest of the season with the major league team, it will count as a full season of service time.    I really don’t see a team waiting until June 16 to call up a guy who is clearly ready to help the team on Opening Day.   2 weeks is one thing; 10 weeks is something else.  

We're in a world where a lot of GMs go into rebuild mode whenever they don't see their team in strong contention.  10 weeks is nothing if you're not planning on contending until 2022.  It was in the 2011 Astros' best interest to leave their prospects in the minors past June 15th.

[Aristotelian]

By the way, from what I have seen of his hitting, I am thinking Harold Baines as a comp.

[DrungoHazewood]

44 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

By the way, from what I have seen of his hitting, I am thinking Harold Baines as a comp.

The Harold Baines family of players.  Rusty Staub.  Nick Markakis.  Al Kaline.  Wally Joyner.  Maybe Al Oliver or Cecil Cooper.  Chris Chambliss.  Mark Kotsay.  Melky Cabrera.  Left handed line-drive hitters who'd take a walk but that wasn't their main thing.  Value largely dependent on if they can hit .300 and play defense.  And accept a more limited role fitting their limitations if they can't.  Baines was a platoon DH for much of his career, and he was fine with it.

Not too many catchers in this family:

                                                                                                                                                                 
Rk            Player Year   BA   PA From   To   Age    G   AB    R    H  2B 3B  HR  RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS  OBP  SLG  OPS     Pos                  Tm
1      Smoky Burgess 1967 .295 5013 1949 1967 22-40 1691 4471  485 1318 230 33 126  673 477  80 270  13 13 39 121 13 14 .362 .446 .807     *2H CHC-PHI-CIN-PIT-CHW
2        Bill Dickey 1946 .313 7065 1928 1946 21-39 1789 6300  930 1969 343 72 202 1209     678 289  31    51  49 36 32 .382 .486 .868     *2H                 NYY
3        Babe Phelps 1942 .310 2305 1931 1942 23-34  726 2117  239  657 143 19  54  345     160 157  13    16  64  9  0 .362 .472 .835  *2H/39     WSH-CHC-BRO-PIT
4    Mickey Cochrane 1937 .320 6208 1925 1937 22-34 1482 5169 1041 1652 333 64 119  830     857 217  29       151 64 45 .419 .478 .897   *2/H7             PHA-DET
5         Earl Smith 1930 .303 2575 1919 1930 22-33  860 2264  225  686 115 19  46  355     247 106  11        47 18  9 .374 .432 .806     *2H     NYG-BSN-PIT-STL
6     Johnny Bassler 1927 .304 2864 1913 1927 18-32  811 2319  250  704  99 16   1  319     437  81  10        92 13  8 .416 .361 .777  *2/H95             CLE-DET
7       Ted Easterly 1915 .300 2191 1909 1915 24-30  706 2020  215  607  88 38   8  261     107 145   8        53 43  8 .338 .394 .732 *2H/987         CLE-CHW-KCP

 

I always wanted the new Johnny Bassler.  He got MVP votes in three consecutive years where he never scored more than 45 runs or hit more than one homer.

 

[Aristotelian]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The Harold Baines family of players.  Rusty Staub.  Nick Markakis.  Al Kaline.  Wally Joyner.  Maybe Al Oliver or Cecil Cooper.  Chris Chambliss.  Mark Kotsay.  Melky Cabrera.  Left handed line-drive hitters who'd take a walk but that wasn't their main thing.  Value largely dependent on if they can hit .300 and play defense.  And accept a more limited role fitting their limitations if they can't.  Baines was a platoon DH for much of his career, and he was fine with it.

Not too many catchers in this family:

 

                                                                                                                                                                 
Rk            Player Year   BA   PA From   To   Age    G   AB    R    H  2B 3B  HR  RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS  OBP  SLG  OPS     Pos                  Tm
1      Smoky Burgess 1967 .295 5013 1949 1967 22-40 1691 4471  485 1318 230 33 126  673 477  80 270  13 13 39 121 13 14 .362 .446 .807     *2H CHC-PHI-CIN-PIT-CHW
2        Bill Dickey 1946 .313 7065 1928 1946 21-39 1789 6300  930 1969 343 72 202 1209     678 289  31    51  49 36 32 .382 .486 .868     *2H                 NYY
3        Babe Phelps 1942 .310 2305 1931 1942 23-34  726 2117  239  657 143 19  54  345     160 157  13    16  64  9  0 .362 .472 .835  *2H/39     WSH-CHC-BRO-PIT
4    Mickey Cochrane 1937 .320 6208 1925 1937 22-34 1482 5169 1041 1652 333 64 119  830     857 217  29       151 64 45 .419 .478 .897   *2/H7             PHA-DET
5         Earl Smith 1930 .303 2575 1919 1930 22-33  860 2264  225  686 115 19  46  355     247 106  11        47 18  9 .374 .432 .806     *2H     NYG-BSN-PIT-STL
6     Johnny Bassler 1927 .304 2864 1913 1927 18-32  811 2319  250  704  99 16   1  319     437  81  10        92 13  8 .416 .361 .777  *2/H95             CLE-DET
7       Ted Easterly 1915 .300 2191 1909 1915 24-30  706 2020  215  607  88 38   8  261     107 145   8        53 43  8 .338 .394 .732 *2H/987         CLE-CHW-KCP

 

 

I always wanted the new Johnny Bassler.  He got MVP votes in three consecutive years where he never scored more than 45 runs or hit more than one homer.

 

Yes. And pretty swing.I like the Wally Joyner comp too. Kotsay would be the floor.

[TouchemAll]

I still think that LH bat gets this kid a MLB job. We shall soon see.

[DrungoHazewood]

14 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Yes. And pretty swing.I like the Wally Joyner comp too. Kotsay would be the floor.

That would be great, if you could write in 2000 games and 21 rWAR as Sisco's floor.  But he's a catcher, and they get banged up all the time and have careers derailed.  And he just had a season in Norfolk where he hit .267 with 7 homers.  Norfolk's a tough place to hit, yes, but Kotsay was hitting that well with the Marlins at 22.

But I think it's more realistic to consider careers like Ed Taubensee or Scott Bradley his floor.

[Aristotelian]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That would be great, if you could write in 2000 games and 21 rWAR as Sisco's floor.  But he's a catcher, and they get banged up all the time and have careers derailed.  And he just had a season in Norfolk where he hit .267 with 7 homers.  Norfolk's a tough place to hit, yes, but Kotsay was hitting that well with the Marlins at 22.

But I think it's more realistic to consider careers like Ed Taubensee or Scott Bradley his floor.

Hm, did not realize Kotsay was that good, although I am really just talking about the bat. I would see Kotsay's .737 OPS as a floor for Sisco, although maybe that is optimistic. My point with the Baines comp is that he could be a LH DH and still be a productive MLB player.

[George Zuverink]

56 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The Harold Baines family of players.  Rusty Staub.  Nick Markakis.  Al Kaline.  Wally Joyner.  Maybe Al Oliver or Cecil Cooper.  Chris Chambliss.  Mark Kotsay.  Melky Cabrera.  Left handed line-drive hitters who'd take a walk but that wasn't their main thing. 

 

Did I find a rare Drungo mistake? Al Kaline was a right handed hitter. My Dad says he struck him out when Kaline was 16 or 17 and my Dad was about 23 playing semi-pro ball after giving up ML aspirations when he couldn't afford the RT train fare to Florida for minor league spring training with the International League Orioles. I saw the $200 per month contract he was offered. He also said that it was the only time they got Kaline out during a double header at Herring Run Park.

 

[jjdman]

From Roch

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With Chance Sisco making the #orioles roster, they're expected to pair up Austin Wynns and Andrew Susac at AAA Norfolk and Audry Perez and Martin Cervenka at AA Bowie.

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