Jerry Crasnick ESPN Article on the Orioles

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

And the 67-95 the year before.

But I was talking more about the lack of sound fundamentals on those teams and not the record.

For someone who was supposedly the chief instructor of the Oriole Way those teams were sloppy.

From Orioles on Wiki:

Quote

In the 1960s, the Orioles farm system produced an especially large number of high-quality players and coaches and laid the foundation for two decades of on-field success. This period included eighteen consecutive winning seasons (1968–1985) -- a run of success that saw the Orioles become the envy of the league, and the winningest team in baseball.

During this period, the Orioles played baseball the "Oriole Way", an organizational ethic best described by longtime farm hand and coach Cal Ripken Sr.'s phrase "perfect practice makes perfect!" The Oriole Way was a belief that hard work, professionalism, and a strong understanding of fundamentals were the keys to success at the major league level. It was based on the belief that if every coach, at every level, taught the game the same way, the organization could produce "replacement parts" that could be substituted seamlessly into the big league club with little or no adjustment. Elaborations on the Oriole way include pitching coach and manager Ray Miller's maxim "Work fast, change speeds, and throw strikes" and manager Earl Weaver's maxim "Pitching, defense and three-run homers." " The "Oriole Way" began flourishing in 1966 after the Robinson-for-Pappas deal, as Robinson won the "Triple Crown Award". His Orioles would easily sweep the Los Angeles Dodgers in the 1966 World Series. After a mediocre 1967 season, Hank Bauer would be replaced by Earl Weaver halfway into 1968. The Orioles would finish second in the American League. This would only be a prelude to 1969, when the Orioles won 109 games and easily won the newly created American League East division title. Mike Cuellar shared the Cy Young Award with Detroit's Denny McLain. After sweeping Minnesota in the American League Championship Series, Baltimore was shocked by losing to the New York Mets in a five-game World Series. The next year, Boog Powell won the MVP and the Orioles won another 108 games. After sweeping the Twins once again in the ALCS, the Orioles won the 1970 World Series by defeating the Cincinnati Reds' Big Red Machine in five games.

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Dipper9 said:

I think what people fail to completely understand is the difference between "managing" and "coaching."  There are some very good coaches, Cal Sr. included, who just were not good managers.  Coaches are basically teachers/trainers.  Baseball Managers are called that for a reason.  They have to manage the game, manage the players, manage the situations, etc.  It is a completely different skill set to "manage" a team than it is to coach the infielders or be the third base coach.  

Sure, but if you are going to invoke Billy's bloodline of all things to declare him a good candidate for Manager than Cal Sr's record as manager comes into play.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

From Orioles on Wiki:

 

This is something you think I don't know about?

[Dipper9]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, but if you are going to invoke Billy's bloodline of all things to declare him a good candidate for Manager than Cal Sr's record as manager comes into play.

I didn't say one way or the other anything about Billy being manager.  I think its a terrible idea.  Just like I think those calling for Cal to be GM is an even worse idea.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Dipper9 said:

I didn't say one way or the other anything about Billy being manager.  I think its a terrible idea.  Just like I think those calling for Cal to be GM is an even worse idea.  

Have you heard him on interviews on 105.7, as he covers baseball for MLB?

The man is very educated in the game of baseball and while that doesn't mean squat to his ability to manage a team, he would have the Oriole way in his blood.

 

 

Didn't say it was you that said it.

[milbest77]

Step 1: Oh my stars for the love of Liza, please get rid of Jim Hunter. I throw up in my mouth whenever I think about listening to him call games during the dark ages. I don’t think I’ll survive another round of the homerism in dark times

[SteveA]

3 hours ago, allquixotic said:

I didn't finish reading the article, but aside from some outlandish recommendations for manager, I don't think it really says anything new. We in the community have known all of this since April, at least, if not even the offseason.

One thing I don't think this club even fathoms or realizes in any way is that fans (informed by media and insiders, but even individual fans in isolation) tend to know more about this ballclub than the management knows. We have had some very sound suggestions and have identified very real problems, while they continue to march ahead silently, "steady as she goes", not reacting to (or not listening to) information they receive identifying major issues with their strategy.

In the information age, they need to either start listening to their fans, or at the very least, reacting to stimuli from their environment. They seem completely inert to any and all external voices, factors, or even the inevitable progression of time. It's like there's nothing that can occur in their environment that causes them to make a change that actually has any impact whatsoever.

Or maybe they are constantly, intensively analyzing everything behind the scenes, to the point that they're stuck in over-analysis paralysis. Second-guessing themselves, 5000th-guessing themselves, to the point where the window they had to do something impactful is long expired. An example is the failure to trade Manny. He should've been gone before the calendar said May, and here it is after the 4th of July. I'm pretty sure literally any of the other 29 management/ownership teams in MLB would've traded him much earlier and therefore gotten a much better package for him. Whatever we get now is going to reflect the value of getting a top-end player... for 3 months. Which isn't a lot, doesn't matter if that player is Mike Trout, Manny Machado or Babe Ruth.

That's what bothers me most about the O's. Their reaction times to anything seem to come with about a 6 month lag. It didn't use to be this way, even with the current regime. Remember when we DFA'ed Arrieta mid-season? Remember when we signed Andrew Miller to help us get into and through the playoffs? We used to pull the trigger when the O's fanbase had been practically rioting in the streets for the trigger to be pulled for a couple weeks at most.

Now we're looking at 3+ months of yelling and screaming, not just by O's fans, but by every single pundit and baseball analyst out there, telling them exactly what to do. And what are they actually doing? What is being done to improve their situation?

Exactly nothing. And with each passing day, the value of our free agent trade chips melts away. It's like they're asleep at the wheel. At this point I really do wonder if DD and Buck are intentionally trying to destroy this team out of malice.

Why are you so sure any of the other 29 teams would have traded him by now?

Every year, the biggest name potential free agents get dealt quite close to July 31.   Guys getting traded more than 4 weeks early are the exception, rather than the rule.   All 30 teams pretty much do it the same way every year.

[spiritof66]

A month or so back, I had asked about Bill Ripken as a future manager.  (I think I was contrasting him to a suggestion that Dempsey succeed Buck.)  From what I've seen of Ripken on MLB, he appears quite knowledgeable about the game, up-to-date and willing to criticize players and managers. 

Someone mentioned that he's too friendly with Oriole players. I don't know anything about that. I would hope that by the time we get a new manager, there won't be more than a few guys on the team whom Ripken even knows. 

I'd rather see a smarty, young guy with some managing experience, but it seems to me that Ripken might be a good choice. 

 

 

[eddie83]

I was surprised that DD isn’t a lock to be gone. 

[Tony-OH]

I don't know how I missed this article, but this should be absolutely required reading for any Orioles fan. It's the best and most complete article on the situation. Outstanding article by Crasnick!

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23998521/mlb-charge-rebuilding-baltimore-orioles-trade-deadline

Saying that, it's hard to be too excited over the future of this franchise as long as the Angelos name is attached to this franchise! 

 

 

[wildbillhiccup]

On 7/5/2018 at 3:05 PM, Dipper9 said:

I didn't say one way or the other anything about Billy being manager.  I think its a terrible idea.  Just like I think those calling for Cal to be GM is an even worse idea.  

Cal as GM would be an even worse choice then Jeter as CEO. 

[Ruzious]

One poster was acting like I was crazy for not assuming that Brady Anderson was handling all the trade talks.  Well, Crasnick's article pretty much spells out what a confusing mess the front office is: 

Quote

Duquette, the man entrusted with doing the outreach and fielding the offers, could be gone in four months. Showalter, who has been making out lineup cards at Camden Yards since 2010, could join him. Against that unsettled backdrop, vice president of baseball operations Brady Anderson is taking on various unspecified roles within the organization. Brothers John and Louis Angelos will be entrusted with making the big calls amid the declining health of their 89-year-old father, Peter, and ongoing litigation with the Washington Nationalsover the MASN television rights fee dispute.