What is the first thing you want the O's to do this off season?

[drjohnnyfeva]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

I don’t see a lot of other teams playing sub-.300 baseball at any point in their cycles.    This season has been an embarrassment and a disgrace.   There are advantages to being the worst team viz. the draft, but it’s not like the O’s planned this.    It’s been pathetic.  

See, now I also think this "cycle" is unacceptable.  I put the blame for the "cycle" at the feet of ownership.  They say one thing, but then divert from it almost immediately.  I won't go thru it all again.  Build arms, buy bats... build the farm... yet they contradict themselves - the ownership - by going against even their own stated purpose when it's convenient to get what they want.  There was no team that was going to sign Chris Davis and the GM had planned ahead with signing Trumbo in case Davis got away.  That's just the most recent example.  They didn't follow the structure and they signed the guy to a crippling contract and now just want to move on saying it's time to rebuild.

I agree with everyone saying that ownership needs to acknowledge their mistakes and organizational dysfunction.  As much as I would love to see that, dogs will grow wings before that occurs.  Aside from that, the only thing that I really want to see is that they commit to a really highly thought of and young GM and to HIM (or her) being in charge.  Period.  Not: "Well, that sounds good.  Let's run it past ______________ Angelos."  That's a recipe for another 15 year "cycle" of terrible ball with a small window of competitiveness at the end - - - or not.

[spiritof66]

9 hours ago, wildcard said:

There is no apology necessary to any one.  The O's won more games than anyone in the AL from 2012-2016.    That was with the current owner and the current management team.    The new GM, (and I hope there will be a new GM) will want to know how much control he has over  who is hire under him, i.e. manager, scouting, player development.  He will want to know how much control he has over trades, releases and his budget.   If those answers are acceptable, most any young GM will take the job.

The team is in a better position now than it was when Duquette was hire.  Than they had lost for 11 years and the environment was toxic.  That is not true now.  There is a rebuild to be done.  It will take time.  But if John and Lou are really in charge and they are reasonable this franchise can attract a talented GM.

There is also no economic uncertainty.   The O's have signal with the trade of Gausman and Schoop that they are taking the payroll into the dirt.   Over the next year everyone except Davis that is making any kind of decent money will be traded or let go.  The money the O's get from MLB for TV, the MASN revenue, the revenue sharing and other league revenues will keep the O's profitable with that kind of payroll no matter how much  attendance may fall.  The attendance will come back as the O's build and begin to win again in a few years.

You assume that a GM candidate will trust what John and Lou say. If I were in their position, I might not. So far as I know, the Angelos sons have no track record and no reputation around MLB (other than whatever negative reputation from their father rubs off on them and, maybe, in John's case, as a politically extremist). If they tell a candidate he or she will have complete control over the rebuild, how does that person know they won't get antsy in a year and start meddling like their father, or worse? 

I think the franchise faces lots of economic uncertainty -- attendance is dropping, ticket prices are very low, the Gnats keep nipping away at the fan base, the value of MASN is uncertain, the estate tax situation is unknown to outsiders, and the commitments to spend on scouting, international free agents etc. are so far just nice words. You're right that in the short term the Orioles will have a low payroll that will enable them to spend on that stuff. But what is it that the Angeloses are committed to spend on scouting, on international free agents, on coaches and instructors, on building an analytics department? Do they even know what these things will cost? More  uncertainty will kick in a few years down the road. What happens in a few years if some of the prospects pan out and mature, the payroll increases and, if the team succeeds, it wants to trade for or sign higher salaried guys? Will there be enough revenue to sustain an average (or slightly higher) MLB payroll and all the other investments that are being promised?

The Angeloses can say whatever they want about all this stuff, but I fear they will face some difficulty if all they can do is make promises.  

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

You assume that a GM candidate will trust what John and Lou say. If I were in their position, I might not. So far as I know, the Angelos sons have no track record and no reputation around MLB (other than whatever negative reputation from their father rubs off on them and, maybe, in John's case, as a politically extremist). If they tell a candidate he or she will have complete control over the rebuild, how does that person know they won't get antsy in a year and start meddling like their father, or worse? 

I think the franchise faces lots of economic uncertainty -- attendance is dropping, ticket prices are very low, the Gnats keep nipping away at the fan base, the value of MASN is uncertain, the estate tax situation is unknown to outsiders, and the commitments to spend on scouting, international free agents etc. are so far just nice words. You're right that in the short term the Orioles will have a low payroll that will enable them to spend on that stuff. But what is it that the Angeloses are committed to spend on scouting, on international free agents, on coaches and instructors, on building an analytics department? Do they even know what these things will cost? More  uncertainty will kick in a few years down the road. What happens in a few years if some of the prospects pan out and mature, the payroll increases and, if the team succeeds, it wants to trade for or sign higher salaried guys? Will there be enough revenue to sustain an average (or slightly higher) MLB payroll and all the other investments that are being promised?

The Angeloses can say whatever they want about all this stuff, but I fear they will face some difficulty if all they can do is make promises.  

You are talking about a team that had a 170m payroll in 2017 and will probably have a 60m payroll in 2020.  There is a lot of room to do a lot of things.   

[spiritof66]

42 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You are talking about a team that had a 170m payroll in 2017 and will probably have a 60m payroll in 2020.  There is a lot of room to do a lot of things.   

I agree, though I don't know the number. (I think it's a little higher than $60mm if the Orioles are paying Cobb.) But what happens when the payroll goes up in, say, 2022? What kind of payroll will the team be able to afford along with maintaining the investments it might make beginning in 2019? My guess is that John and Lou Angelos don't know, in part because they don't know what revenues MASN will bring in, don't know what the fan base will look like after a couple more years of bad baseball,  and in part because they just haven't figured that all out.

[weams]

https://www.12up.com/posts/6165005-report-yankees-and-red-sox-set-to-battle-over-flame-throwing-cuban-pitcher/partners/40022

[Natty]

Clean house. Buck and DD have to go. And all coaches. 2 last place finishes speak for themselves, and this year is historically pitiful. 

[tntoriole]

17 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

I agree, though I don't know the number. (I think it's a little higher than $60mm if the Orioles are paying Cobb.) But what happens when the payroll goes up in, say, 2022? What kind of payroll will the team be able to afford along with maintaining the investments it might make beginning in 2019? My guess is that John and Lou Angelos don't know, in part because they don't know what revenues MASN will bring in, don't know what the fan base will look like after a couple more years of bad baseball,  and in part because they just haven't figured that all out.

 

18 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

You assume that a GM candidate will trust what John and Lou say. If I were in their position, I might not. So far as I know, the Angelos sons have no track record and no reputation around MLB (other than whatever negative reputation from their father rubs off on them and, maybe, in John's case, as a politically extremist). If they tell a candidate he or she will have complete control over the rebuild, how does that person know they won't get antsy in a year and start meddling like their father, or worse? 

I think the franchise faces lots of economic uncertainty -- attendance is dropping, ticket prices are very low, the Gnats keep nipping away at the fan base, the value of MASN is uncertain, the estate tax situation is unknown to outsiders, and the commitments to spend on scouting, international free agents etc. are so far just nice words. You're right that in the short term the Orioles will have a low payroll that will enable them to spend on that stuff. But what is it that the Angeloses are committed to spend on scouting, on international free agents, on coaches and instructors, on building an analytics department? Do they even know what these things will cost? More  uncertainty will kick in a few years down the road. What happens in a few years if some of the prospects pan out and mature, the payroll increases and, if the team succeeds, it wants to trade for or sign higher salaried guys? Will there be enough revenue to sustain an average (or slightly higher) MLB payroll and all the other investments that are being promised?

The Angeloses can say whatever they want about all this stuff, but I fear they will face some difficulty if all they can do is make promises.  

You could be right, of course, but, on the other hand, perhaps John and Lou actually know something about the business their father has operated for years.  Maybe even more than us on the OH might think.  A lot of the same idea was said about Irsays kid and he was light years better.   Sometimes kids inheriting a business have identified the dysfunctional pieces that they have yearned to do better.  Maybe we get lucky.  I will reserve judgement and try not to use the word “Angelos”  as a collective condemnation of inevitable doom by the sons. 

[weams]

20 hours ago, eddie83 said:

That had to be ordered by ownership to save money.  

Or decided by Management. If the team has quit you must save a bit. 

[waroriole]

At this point, if you don’t fire everyone it’s just absurd. 

[Bradysburns]

On 9/7/2018 at 6:33 PM, atomic said:

 

They don't have to fire anyone.  Their contracts all expire at the end of the season.  With the way this franchise is operated I am guessing they will realize they aren't coming back when their replacements are hired.

 

"We took care of the problem..."

[Bradysburns]

The first thing I would do is take the entire organization down to the Amazon for an ayahuasca ceremony. We need to get a whole new perspective on things before making any major decisions here. A visit to the Spirit Underworld of the Lizard King could be exactly what we need to turn this thing around. 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

 

You could be right, of course, but, on the other hand, perhaps John and Lou actually know something about the business their father has operated for years.  Maybe even more than us on the OH might think.  A lot of the same idea was said about Irsays kid and he was light years better.   Sometimes kids inheriting a business have identified the dysfunctional pieces that they have yearned to do better.  Maybe we get lucky.  I will reserve judgement and try not to use the word “Angelos”  as a collective condemnation of inevitable doom by the sons. 

You're right. They may know the business well, they may understand the stupidity and destructiveness of what their father did, they may understand the team's present finances and have plans for future spending that make sense, and they may be honorable guys who will do what they say they will do. I'm dubious, but maybe so.

My point, though, is that I'm concerned that, without actually doing something more, the Orioles will have trouble convincing strong applicants to leave their current positions to join the management and on-field mess that is the Baltimore Orioles. Duquette wasn't giving up a promising future with another team to take the Orioles' job. I don't know of a candidate like that this time around, and IMO that's not the optimal profile for the next GM.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

At this point, if you don’t fire everyone it’s just absurd. 

I bet O's ownership does not fire anyone.

[Greg Pappas]

2 hours ago, weams said:

https://www.12up.com/posts/6165005-report-yankees-and-red-sox-set-to-battle-over-flame-throwing-cuban-pitcher/partners/40022

 

Quote

 

• Yunier Cano is a Cuban-born pitcher that throws gas and is currently playing in Argentina. Cano is a free agent who is generating a lot of buzz around baseball, and the Yanks and Sox are ready to do battle over him.
• Anytime a team can add a young talented arm to their roster at a small cost, they're going to jump at the opportunity, which makes the fact that both the Yankees and Red Sox are kicking the tires on acquiring Cano all the more obvious. 
• Since Cano has no signing restrictions, you can expect that his first MLB contract will be for a hefty sum. Back in 2015 the Red Sox signed Yoan Moncada, another Cuban free agent, to a $31.5 million deal. 
• There's been no indication that suggests Cano's deal would eclipse the $31.5 million that Moncada got, but with the Red Sox and Yankees in a bidding war, one would have to think that's a possibility.

 

What are the odds we get in on this?  Probably not good... but we'll see.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

 

What are the odds we get in on this?  Probably not good... but we'll see.

Not a fight I'd be interested in winning.