Joseph for the second time calls out the team

[Tony-OH]

41 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Thanks, Frobby.  If you extrapolate Caleb's 4.3 career WAR over 24 seasons like Dempsey had, you'd probably wind up somewhere in the same ballpark.  25 WAR over 24 seasons isn't much.  I'm not saying Dempsey was a bad player, I agree with your assessment that he was solid, especially for the time period.

My overriding point is that you don't have to be a WAR God to be a leader.  

Joseph is a similar player to Dempsey, but I'd give Dempsey the edge due to the amount of years he was able to play vs the relatively short career of Joseph due to his late blooming status. I agree with a lot of what you saying though.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Nope, not in the least bit. I think those people who think Rosenthal has some kind of ax to grind with the Orioles and "makes things up" or "exaggerate" them is really disrespectful to a guy who is know for being a good and fair journalist. He focuses  a lot on the Orioles because he is local and I'm sure has good sources in and out of the organization. 

People can believe what they want, but there is a lot of smoke coming from a  lot of sources, just like when I put my piece out earlier this year, and if they want to ignore them all and just assume the right things are being done, well that's their choice.

I will withhold final judgment until I see what happens this offseason, but if there are not sweeping change from President of Baseball Operations on down, I'll be very concerned.

Ok, thanks for your post. I just find it really hard to believe, with as dysfunctional as the MLB is, that they are worried about the Orioles.

[webbrick2010]

16 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

It's not a shot at him.  It's pointing out that comments like his coming from a low performing player are not likely to be very effective.  

All we have is low performing players... who else could speak out... and I think Caleb is pretty clearly saying that the manager and coaches should have been fired a long time ago.

[Il BuonO]

11 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Huh?  Of course not - he's established himself over many years with the team.  

How long does it take? Joseph has been with the team since 2014. It’s not strictly based on performance. 

[Tony-OH]

BTW, does anyone think Caleb is trying to motivate guys at this stage in the season in a season like this?  He's simply telling it like it is and I applaud him for letting us know that even some of the young guys aren't exactly motivated and just playing out the string.

If Buck and his coaching staff can't motivate young players in their first taste of the big leagues, how are they supposed to come back and help rebuild this franchise?

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

BTW, does anyone think Caleb is trying to motivate guys at this stage in the season in a season like this?  He's simply telling it like it is and I applaud him for letting us know that even some of the young guys aren't exactly motivated and just playing out the string.

If Buck and his coaching staff can't motivate young players in their first taste of the big leagues, how are they supposed to come back and help rebuild this franchise?

I think Caleb said it best, the young kids are just happy to be at the bigs and getting their first taste of big league ball.

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I think Caleb said it best, the young kids are just happy to be at the bigs and getting their first taste of big league ball.

Right, but he also insinuated that they may be taking these opportunities for granted a bit. Like he said, it's ok to be "just happy to be here" for a day or two, but then it's time to get hungry and show MLB you can be a major league player. 

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Right, but he also insinuated that they may be taking these opportunities for granted a bit. Like he said, it's ok to be "just happy to be here" for a day or two, but then it's time to get hungry and show MLB you can be a major league player. 

Yup, they need to show they have the fire, drive, and skills to hold that job next year.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

He does have an obligation to say something?

He does if he wants to earn his reputation as a team leader.

[24fps]

2 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

I sure don't agree with him. Who is he to call out anyone? A backup catcher. That's almost as bad as CD calling out the team. 

I'd pay to see that though.  I'd pay a lot more than I would to see the Orioles take the field.  We could all use a good laugh that didn't hurt at the same time.

Cut Caleb some slack.  His message resonates with a lot of us.

[LookitsPuck]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

Mortgage the farm? Even for you, this is a bit over the top.

They drafted heavy on pitchers, and so far, Bundy, Gausman and Harvey havent come through as expected.

The total picture is signing guys like Gallardo and Ubaldo and losing 1st round picks. It's poor roster management by giving away Matusz and Webb and picks in salary dumps. It's making asinine mid-season trades for guys like Parra (and giving up a guy like Davies, 5.6 WAR for the Brewers so far). It's re-buying on guys like Trumbo instead of letting him walk. The list can really go on. That's kind of my point. 

I'm not going over the top here. It's been clear as day during Duquette's tenure that he was all in....year in and year out until 2018. 

Some of the trades were necessary to some, some were boneheaded...but the draft picks being given out like candy aren't defensible.

[Can_of_corn]

41 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

It was pointed out a few times in Wieter's era here, WAR applied to catchers, doesn't really tell the whole story, since the catcher has so much input and involvement in the defense and play of the game.

Didn't Wieters' defense go in the tank years ago?  Isn't he known as a poor framer?  Haven't folks questioned his game calling?

[eddie83]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Right, but he also insinuated that they may be taking these opportunities for granted a bit. Like he said, it's ok to be "just happy to be here" for a day or two, but then it's time to get hungry and show MLB you can be a major league player. 

In the Athletic article he calls it an “open tryout team” and doesn’t feel it should be that way next year. 

 

1 minute ago, LookitsPuck said:

The total picture is signing guys like Gallardo and Ubaldo and losing 1st round picks. It's poor roster management by giving away Matusz and Webb and picks in salary dumps. It's making asinine mid-season trades for guys like Parra (and giving up a guy like Davies, 5.6 WAR for the Brewers so far). It's re-buying on guys like Trumbo instead of letting him walk. The list can really go on. That's kind of my point. 

I'm not going over the top here. It's been clear as day during Duquette's tenure that he was all in....year in and year out until 2018. 

Some of the trades were necessary to some, some were boneheaded...but the draft picks being given out like candy aren't defensible.

The owner doesn’t invest Internationally, will not spend on top flight pitching and yet once the club started winning wanted that to continue. 

If you are going to try to extend out your competitive window sacrifices have to be made. It floors me how many people must think DD is stupid. I mean he had no idea this team was aging? 

[Going Underground]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Didn't Wieters' defense go in the tank years ago?  Isn't he known as a poor framer?  Haven't folks questioned his game calling?

Not me.That whole game calling thing is overrated. The Orioles have the worst ERA in the majors.All I heard was Caleb calls a much better game then Wieters.When  Wieters catches Scherzer ,he is a brilliant game caller. Fedde or Gonzalez not so much.

[LookitsPuck]

The thing about Dempsey is...yes, on paper, 24 seasons and only 25 WAR doesn't sound spectacular. But he accrued nearly 21 of it from 1977 to 1986. A 10 year period averaging 2.1 WAR isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination. 

I like Caleb a lot. He certainly bloomed late, but he's not Rick Dempsey. There's something to say about longevity. Especially at the catcher position. I'm not confident Caleb would put up the kind of numbers Dempsey did over a 10 year period. I think it's very possible he'd put up half the WAR. And that's all I need to say about that.