Waste of International Bounty. New GM. Discuss.

[Hallas]

Is this really thread worthy?

Chances are a high minors UTI is worth more in potential major league value than a 16 year old out of the Caribbean.  (I'm aware that the IFA has breakout possibility that the UTI doesn't have.)  Either way, neither was probably going to move the needle much.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Hallas said:

Is this really thread worthy?

Chances are a high minors UTI is worth more in potential major league value than a 16 year old out of the Caribbean.  (I'm aware that the IFA has breakout possibility that the UTI doesn't have.)  Either way, neither was probably going to move the needle much.

Voice your complaints to Weams.

Like I would choose a title like this.

I will say that depending on the money it could be a plurality of international players.

[Sessh]

I will remain skeptical of Elias's autonomy until I see enough to show otherwise, so in that respect, I'm on the hill with CoC. I found it quite surprising that Elias would flat out lie about hiring Hyde while it was simultaneously being announced on TV that we had hired him. That's kind of... weird. It's still early, but it does plant a small seed of doubt/skepticism/concern about Elias. It's too early for me to commit to anything regarding this situation, but that really threw up a "WTF" flag for me when I read about that on here and although I think Elias was the right hire for this club, there are some things I just need to see to believe. Too early, but I remain skeptical. Elias lying about hiring Hyde while it's being announced we hired him is just weird. I don't know what to make of that, but it didn't instill any confidence that's for sure. Maybe it was just a mess-up for the rookie GM. We'll see.

[Hallas]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Voice your complaints to Weams.

Like I would choose a title like this.

I will say that depending on the money it could be a plurality of international players.

There's a bit of a soft cap on the number of players you can sign.  You have to be able to put them all on appropriate-level teams.  If you're not paying for Mesa brothers or Gaston it becomes really hard to sign 30 players at 250K a piece when you're sitting at 7 million in IFA money.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Hallas said:

There's a bit of a soft cap on the number of players you can sign.  You have to be able to put them all on appropriate-level teams.  If you're not paying for Mesa brothers or Gaston it becomes really hard to sign 30 players at 250K a piece when you're sitting at 7 million in IFA money.

I agree that it would be hard to sign 30 guys from December to June.

[byrdz]

Personally, I like the discussion, since we are seeing how Elias makes selections when given options.

On a lighter note, Drew Jackson and Richie Martin are good baseball names. 

[Satyr3206]

After reading this thread I'm going to the Cat Fancy website.

[ThomasTomasz]

7 hours ago, weams said:

Yes. They get 50k cold hard cash. And beg to disagree again, this is in no way an indication of Elias ability to do what he wants with the baseball ops part of the club. That was a very disingenuous snark there. There is no one left to spend Dan's goodbye money on. In fact, this may be the Phillies additional compensation for your favorite Gulf League first baseman. 

 

 

 

If I recall, there is one player left who might be available this period, if he can establish residency in another country in time.  

It looks like both of these guys will get time at short stop next year, and it's a cheaper way of filling that spot and seeing what we have.  Drew Jackson had an OPS at .800 and 22 steals playing in AA ball last year.  It's going to be a tough jump, but at least we have a potential bat, solid glove and speed out of a middle infielder.  He could also fill the utility role as well.  I personally liked the trade.  

[foxfield]

6 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Phillies sure think they can spend some.

Sorry, until I see proof to the contrary I'm going to believe that ownership has capped International spending.  It explains Zoellner, it explains the low ball VVM offer and it explains Elias trading away slot money.  We had three different folks in charge and the constant was ownership.

I think this is nuts, not because I do not have the same skepticism that you do about the Orioles, but because, Elias, could have waited for another gig, and most certainly asked 3 direct questions to the Angelosons during his interview.  1)  Can I cut Davis if I deem necessary?  2)  If I decide to let Brady go, will that be a problem? 3) How quickly can I begin to sign international players?

6 hours ago, weams said:

Orioles have six million more international slots than anyone that expire in June. What would you like to see them spent on.  Assuming the slots can be funded. 

Well, this is important because it is entirely possible that the answer to number 3 above was:  Next season.

6 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Believe it or not, I'm not frothing at the mouth about it.

I just think it's an indicator that Elias doesn't have the freedom we hope he does.

It's a bit frothy Corn.  Like it or not, it is possible that you are correct, but there is literally zero indication from this deal the Elias does not have the freedom that ownership has stated he has.  None.

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think he was told we are only willing to spend X on the international market.  I don't think Elias has the power to distribute the total funds as he sees fit.  I think he has a group of smaller pools instead of one large pool.

Again, it is possible that the pool for this year was not authorized.  However, I would expect that Ownership also asked if there was anyone he wanted to spend on immediately and if Elias gave reasons and amounts, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that perhaps he merely traded some excess. Or that he was asked to begin next year....It is also likely that if he does not have the power to distribute funds...as you state above, Elias would not have taken the job.  To suggest otherwise is pretty mischievous.  

4 hours ago, SteveA said:

You don't admit the possibility, given knowledge gained while working with the Astros, that there is no one in the international market worth spending the remainder of our allotment on?   Or at least not worth more than spending that money in other ways, such as hiring scouts, staffing an anlaytics department, improving minor league facilities, etc?

No one disputes that he probably has a total budget to work with.   And he has said he is going to invest in this organization, which we know is deficient in many areas.   If he has legitimately looked at the international free agents and decided that spending ALL of the cap room we have on it would not be worth as much as spending some of that money somewhere else, then he basically just gave away nothing to get a rule 5 player.   (And the Phillies, if they did not want a rule 5 guy on their roster, gave away nothing to get some cap space).  

So one possibility is that ownership has lied about giving him carte blanche and he is dealing the cap room because of that.   And the other is that it was a situation where a team put zero value on Rule 5 players traded a rule 5 draft spot to a team that has decided that, in its overall budget, there was not enough talent left before June to justify spending our entire cap space on compared to spending that money on other ways of improving our organization.   A win-win trade (albeit a small-win/small-win) for both teams.

When in doubt, and when there is no evidence whatsoever that we are being lied to, I say take the deal at face value.

Well said SteveA!

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, I admit it is a possibility.  But the slots are good for six more months and things could change.  Have we heard how much was sent?  Obviously things are different if they sent 250K or if they send 2M.

Corn, there is every reason to be skeptical of the Orioles screwing this up.  Angelosons could very well pull a Lucy and pull the rug out from under Elias.  But if you think he took this job and doesn't have control, without even attempting to look reasonably at any number of rational explanations to this move.   Including recognizing that the O's picked up two cheap pretty well regarded middle infielders.  Well, then you are looking for ghosts.

All of that said, I have learned to never underestimate the Orioles ability to mess something up.  Sort of like UVA against VT in football.  Always striving to pull defeat from the jaws of victory.  I just don't think this relationship is anyway threatened over 6M+ of international money.  Ownership either asked to not spend this year, or Elias is looking to spend X and decided to take 6M+ minus X and maybe minus some extra...just in case, and made wise use of some of the difference today.  In that light, he would look pretty wise.  Your way he is hog tied in the corner.  I can only speculate and I am not really a gambling man, but I'd bet a whole lot that Elias is not hog tied in a corner.

[MASNPalmer]

This thread is reactionary. We get it, a contrarian view from CoC (and trust me, I respect that you look at data with no bias), but this is a transaction at it's simplest nature. Not a sign of anything and not worthy of trying to fire up the masses. Elias is looking a the opportunity cost of a small amount of slot money vs a positional player that fills a positional need for an organization; like another poster said, these type of depth moves happen quite often around the bigs. Not sure you can just paint such a black and white picture with this one. 

Thank u, next 

[OriolesMagic83]

[sportsfan8703]

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I know I'm up on this hill by myself.

I unfortunately expect a lot of company in the coming months.

And yes, this is all my take on what has happened and yes none of us know the actual details.

 

I agree with you. Trading away international money is pretty depressing and really makes me not “trust the process”. Looks like we’re not participating in the international market again. 

Look at how sad are GCL team is,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=e6509ff4

They went 13-42. Haha. Notice the lack of international prospects. The Yankees have two GCL teams.  Here is one,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=0b6afcfb

Notice the difference?  Elias is going to have to bat 1.000 on his trades and US draft picks.  Looks like we’re just not going to participate in 50% of the ways to acquire amateur talent.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I agree with you. Trading away international money is pretty depressing and really makes me not “trust the process”. Looks like we’re not participating in the international market again. 

Look at how sad are GCL team is,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=e6509ff4

They went 13-42. Haha. Notice the lack of international prospects. The Yankees have two GCL teams.  Here is one,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=0b6afcfb

Notice the difference?  Elias is going to have to bat 1.000 on his trades and US draft picks.  Looks like we’re just not going to participate in 50% of the ways to acquire amateur talent.

 

Perhaps they should fire that Duquette guy.

[24fps]

16 hours ago, Frobby said:

You don’t see many baseball execs giving details of what happened during their former employment.    Maybe they are under NDA’s; maybe they think that being loose-lipped will hinder future employment. 

Of course it will.  Tell-all books are a fine hobby for retirees.

[weams]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I agree with you. Trading away international money is pretty depressing and really makes me not “trust the process”. Looks like we’re not participating in the international market again. 

Look at how sad are GCL team is,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=e6509ff4

They went 13-42. Haha. Notice the lack of international prospects. The Yankees have two GCL teams.  Here is one,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=0b6afcfb

Notice the difference?  Elias is going to have to bat 1.000 on his trades and US draft picks.  Looks like we’re just not going to participate in 50% of the ways to acquire amateur talent.

 

Oh, it's not money. And all the guys currently eligible are gone. But new ones will come in July.  Oh, and we still have the ability to spend 5 million on they guys no one else wanted or suprise guys. If they get enough season ticket holder renewals to fund the acquisitions.