Interesting FAs

[Camden_yardbird]

3 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

It's very clear that the Orioles plan to spend very little money this off season. So they types of players they "might" be willing to target are going to be so far down on the totem pole that they're not going to bring back anything of value. I'm not sure where you've gotten this notion that baseball GMs are like like glorified day traders who sign players with the intention of flipping them that same year. I really don't think this is a common strategy, especially for rebuilding teams. 

This rebuild will take five years if they do it the right way. Maybe four if they catch some breaks. There's no short cut or way around that fact. And when I say rebuild I'm not just talking about fielding a competitive team for a few seasons,  I'm talking about changing EVERYTHING so they can have sustainable success. 

 

So you are saying you want to totally rebuild the organization.  Have sustained success, innovate and compete with the Yankees and Red Sox given smaller payrolls and resources.

And you don't think a team like that signs plays on the short term with the intention of flipping them?

Let me introduce you to the Tampa Bay Rays... 

[wildbillhiccup]

38 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

So you are saying you want to totally rebuild the organization.  Have sustained success, innovate and compete with the Yankees and Red Sox given smaller payrolls and resources.

And you don't think a team like that signs plays on the short term with the intention of flipping them?

Let me introduce you to the Tampa Bay Rays... 

Ok, let's use your example. In 2017 Tampa Bay signed Wilson Ramos to a 2 year deal then traded him last year to Philly for a PTBNL. That's the best the could do and Ramos is a much better free agent then anyone this team will target. I'm no advocating no making improvements via trades, but like I said for the moment most of our trade chips have been cashed in. And this team isn't in a position to cash in for more chips. Did the Astros sign high priced free agents during their rebuild? That's the model we'll be following and I don't remember them taking that approach. 

[Camden_yardbird]

17 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Ok, let's use your example. In 2017 Tampa Bay signed Wilson Ramos to a 2 year deal then traded him last year to Philly for a PTBNL. That's the best the could do and Ramos is a much better free agent then anyone this team will target. I'm no advocating no making improvements via trades, but like I said for the moment most of our trade chips have been cashed in. And this team isn't in a position to cash in for more chips. Did the Astros sign high priced free agents during their rebuild? That's the model we'll be following and I don't remember them taking that approach. 

And Nate Eovaldi, signed to a similar two year contract netted them Jalen Beeks.  

Other teams have made signings that got them better prospects as well.  As I said, I have responded to that line of thinking before and proven that it can indeed be done and should certainly be tried.  The one thing a rebuilding team has is the ability to offer playing time, and that is a resource a team like the Orioles should use.

 

[wildbillhiccup]

58 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

And Nate Eovaldi, signed to a similar two year contract netted them Jalen Beeks.  

Other teams have made signings that got them better prospects as well.  As I said, I have responded to that line of thinking before and proven that it can indeed be done and should certainly be tried.  The one thing a rebuilding team has is the ability to offer playing time, and that is a resource a team like the Orioles should use.

 

Signing a short term free agent and offering them playing time stunts the growth of the prospects that have nothing left to prove at the minor league level. Players like Hays, Mountcastle, and Sisco need to be given semi-regular at bats this season so we have a better sense of whether they can cut it in the majors by the end of the season. That also has to be taken into consideration. The only positions that I don't think a free agent would be potentially blocking a young possibly sustainable prospect would be in our starting rotation and maybe in the bullpen if we were to trade Givens. 

[Camden_yardbird]

5 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Signing a short term free agent and offering them playing time stunts the growth of the prospects that have nothing left to prove at the minor league level. Players like Hays, Mountcastle, and Sisco need to be given semi-regular at bats this season so we have a better sense of whether they can cut it in the majors by the end of the season. That also has to be taken into consideration. The only positions that I don't think a free agent would be potentially blocking a young possibly sustainable prospect would be in our starting rotation and maybe in the bullpen if we were to trade Givens. 

Your assumption is that a team starts 9 players, plays them 162 games and gives them every at bat.  That's wrong.  A baseball season is a very long season and there are more than enough at bats to go around.

Mountcastle wont be up until September at the earliest.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Your assumption is that a team starts 9 players, plays them 162 games and gives them every at bat.  That's wrong.  A baseball season is a very long season and there are more than enough at bats to go around.

Mountcastle wont be up until September at the earliest.

We don't know that.

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

We don't know that.

No we don’t, but I think he’s probably right.   

[wildcard]

52 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Your assumption is that a team starts 9 players, plays them 162 games and gives them every at bat.  That's wrong.  A baseball season is a very long season and there are more than enough at bats to go around.

Mountcastle wont be up until September at the earliest.

Why would they call him up in Sept.  If they wait that long they might as well wait until April 20th and   have him for a  7th season.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Why would they call him up in Sept.  If they wait that long they might as well wait until April 20th and   have him for a  7th season.

Because you reward players with September callups.

Geez you folks are just killing me with this service clock manipulation stuff.

Teams don't game the clock for EVERY PLAYER.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because you reward players with September callups.

Geez you folks are just killing me with this service clock manipulation stuff.

Teams don't game the clock for EVERY PLAYER.

Not all players.  Just the ones that project as to be everyday players or starters for the O's next contending team.

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Not all players.  Just the ones that project as to be everyday players or starters for the O's next contending team.

I hear you, but we kinda need to see if they are worthy of being on the next contending team.  I really don't see the value in 9 28 year old rookies either.  The Manny Machado's you have to manipulate the clock, but not all of the everyday players.  

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Why would they call him up in Sept.  If they wait that long they might as well wait until April 20th and   have him for a  7th season.

Yes, probably.    I hope he plays well enough to warrant a call-up, whether or not he gets one.   Big year for him (aren’t they all?).   

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, foxfield said:

I hear you, but we kinda need to see if they are worthy of being on the next contending team.  I really don't see the value in 9 28 year old rookies either.  The Manny Machado's you have to manipulate the clock, but not all of the everyday players.  

The focus for contending is 2022.  Plenty of time.  Players should be in the majors by sometime in their age 24 season or earlier  when possible.  That looks possible for Hays, Diaz, Mouncastle, Hall, Grayson Rodriguez. Kremer,  and McKenna.

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Yes, probably.    I hope he plays well enough to warrant a call-up, whether or not he gets one.   Big year for him (aren’t they all?).   

The O's are likely to have a losing season and in July the O's will sell off veterans like Trumbo, Cashner, Cobb, Givens, and Bleier if they can get anything for them.  That means 2021 is another losing season.    

Delay calling up young everyday players so the O's can keep them for 7 season should be part of the overall strategy to build a World Series team and keep them together for several more seasons.

The O's should minimize wasting the O's long term talent's service time in years where the O's are very likely going to have losing seasons.

[foxfield]

24 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The O's are likely to have a losing season and in July the O's will sell off veterans like Trumbo, Cashner, Cobb, Givens, and Bleier if they can get anything for them.  That means 2021 is another losing season.    

Delay calling up young everyday players so the O's can keep them for 7 season should be part of the overall strategy to build a World Series team and keep them together for several more seasons.

The O's should minimize wasting the O's long term talent's service time in years where the O's are very likely going to have losing seasons.

Yeah, but your making a chicken and egg argument on this.  The Orioles can't keep em all down and then have 12 rookies in 2022 and expect to be competitive.  Some of the guys might need to prove they can actually be part of the next winning Orioles team.  I didn't hear any can't miss projections from anyone on the Orioles guys.