The 2019 Misery Index: Which MLB fanbase has it the worst?

[DrungoHazewood]

13 hours ago, theocean said:

Flags fly forever. I'm pretty sure basically everyone cares.

That being said, the Marlins sure are working on claiming that top spot. But, for now, I think the Mariners fan base certainly has had it the worst - they haven't even made the playoffs since Ichiro's rookie year. 

Yep, all 5,947 fans who paid for a ticket to last Wednesday's game at the shiny, new stadium they tore down the Orange Bowl to build with hundreds of $millions in taxpayer money.  As they watched the guy Jeter traded for Giancarlo Stanton OPS .562.  At least for the moment the Marlins have a lower OPS than Chris Davis.

Since 2000 the Marlins have drawn 2 million fans in a season once.  The Orioles have done it 14 times.  Last year the Marlins drew 811k fans.  The Orioles last did that in 1964.

But that's all fine, since they won the 2003 World Series.

[theocean]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yep, all 5,947 fans who paid for a ticket to last Wednesday's game at the shiny, new stadium they tore down the Orange Bowl to build with hundreds of $millions in taxpayer money.  As they watched the guy Jeter traded for Giancarlo Stanton OPS .562.  At least for the moment the Marlins have a lower OPS than Chris Davis.

Not arguing that the Marlins are a terrible organization and are free diving into embarrassment after embarrassment. I think they'll absolutely have the most tortured fanbase in these rankings soon enough.

But, championships absolutely do matter. Ask the Buffalo Bills how those four Super Bowl appearances in a row felt.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, theocean said:

But, championships absolutely do matter. Ask the Buffalo Bills how those four Super Bowl appearances in a row felt.

I know several Bills fans and they count themselves as being very long-suffering and those seasons as being highly disappointing.  

I think that's symptomatic of our Championship or Nothing culture.  Most of our leagues have about 30 teams, and many of the teams are uncompetitive for years, or even decades.  So realistically if you're not a Yanks/Sox/Dodgers/Lakers/LeBron/etc fan, you have maybe a 1-in-50 chance of your favorite team ending the season not completely disappointed.  I think that's at least a little screwed up.  There are a number of MLB franchises that haven't won the Series in the past 30 or 40 years.  And there's nothing else - no trophies, no other competitions, no other anything.  It's 1-in-50 or cry in your drink.  I guess it's no wonder people in Peoria and Walla Walla root for the Yanks and Sox.  A lot of folks don't want to die without ever seeing it through.

[theocean]

11 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I know several Bills fans and they count themselves as being very long-suffering and those seasons as being highly disappointing.  

I think that's symptomatic of our Championship or Nothing culture.  Most of our leagues have about 30 teams, and many of the teams are uncompetitive for years, or even decades.  So realistically if you're not a Yanks/Sox/Dodgers/Lakers/LeBron/etc fan, you have maybe a 1-in-50 chance of your favorite team ending the season not completely disappointed.  I think that's at least a little screwed up.  There are a number of MLB franchises that haven't won the Series in the past 30 or 40 years.  And there's nothing else - no trophies, no other competitions, no other anything.  It's 1-in-50 or cry in your drink.  I guess it's no wonder people in Peoria and Walla Walla root for the Yanks and Sox.  A lot of folks don't want to die without ever seeing it through.

I agree, Championship-or-nothing is pretty silly. But, I think these things can be pretty nuanced, too.

Take LeBron for instance. If he returns to Cleveland, they lose every Finals matchup to Golden State, and then he leaves for the Lakers - that's pretty "torturous," right? But, they won one - and I'd imagine most Cleveland fans would be pretty happy with that period.

Or, take the Royals. If they lose back-to-back World Series, perception of that period of Kansas City baseball changes pretty drastically, right? Kind of rubs even more salt into the wound of the Royals' absolute mediocrity since the 1985 season. Winning the big one kind of resets all the ills that happened previously.

But, hey, Boston fans are always quick to point out that THEY are actually the most tortured fanbase in the world any chance they get - so we all must be wrong 

 

[TonySoprano]

17 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Who cares?  That was 16 years ago, and the team is a disaster.  They've done nothing since and they play in front of an empty stadium.  They're a shell of a team with no resources and no obvious path to sustainability and you think that's all trumped by a trophy from when Richie Martin was in kindergarten?

How soon people forget the O's did nothing from 1998-2011.

Since 2003
MIA 1,241-1,393
BAL 1,210-1,429  - 33.5

Since 1997
MIA 1,685-1,930
BAL 1,669-1,941 - 13.5

Notice, despite the Orioles' recent success, the W/L gap between the two teams has grown larger since 1998, favoring the Miami Jeters.

Losing Seasons since 1997
MIA and BAL tied at 17,  MIA has 1 more winning season vs O's 2015 .500 team.

Playoffs (Did you say playoffs?  Playoffs?)
BAL 5,  no WS appearance since 1983
MIA 2 WS titles
 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, theocean said:

I agree, Championship-or-nothing is pretty silly. But, I think these things can be pretty nuanced, too.

Take LeBron for instance. If he returns to Cleveland, they lose every Finals matchup to Golden State, and then he leaves for the Lakers - that's pretty "torturous," right? But, they won one - and I'd imagine most Cleveland fans would be pretty happy with that period.

Or, take the Royals. If they lose back-to-back World Series, perception of that period of Kansas City baseball changes pretty drastically, right? Kind of rubs even more salt into the wound of the Royals' absolute mediocrity since the 1985 season. Winning the big one kind of resets all the ills that happened previously.

But, hey, Boston fans are always quick to point out that THEY are actually the most tortured fanbase in the world any chance they get - so we all must be wrong 

 

The difference between winning and short series and not is as much luck as skill.  But we still put all the emphasis on it.  On the opening day of the playoffs the best team in baseball usually has less than a 25% chance of winning it all, but if they fail people probably get fired.

[JR Oriole]

3 hours ago, theocean said:

I agree, Championship-or-nothing is pretty silly. But, I think these things can be pretty nuanced, too.

Take LeBron for instance. If he returns to Cleveland, they lose every Finals matchup to Golden State, and then he leaves for the Lakers - that's pretty "torturous," right? But, they won one - and I'd imagine most Cleveland fans would be pretty happy with that period.

Or, take the Royals. If they lose back-to-back World Series, perception of that period of Kansas City baseball changes pretty drastically, right? Kind of rubs even more salt into the wound of the Royals' absolute mediocrity since the 1985 season. Winning the big one kind of resets all the ills that happened previously.

But, hey, Boston fans are always quick to point out that THEY are actually the most tortured fanbase in the world any chance they get - so we all must be wrong 

 

THIS.  Winning just one is all I am asking.  It isn't a big ask.  I don't need a title every year.  Just that one season where we finish on top. 

[Frobby]

I think fans who have experienced winning it all have a different take than fans who haven’t.   Let’s say the choice is (1) rooting for a team that contends 2 years out of 10 but wins 1 title, or (2) rooting for a team that contends 7 out of 10 times but never wins a title.    If you give that choice to fans who have already experienced winning a title, I think a majority would elect option 2 (in terms of what happens in the future).   Give that same choice to fans who have never won a title, and I think the majority would elect option 1.

For me, I care more about being engaged in the pennant race for six months and living and dying with every game, than I do about having a brief moment of intense happiness in October and then wondering what about next year.   

Of course, for folks who became fans after 1983, they’ve had the worst of both worlds — no titles and very few contending seasons.

[Uli2001]

On 3/14/2019 at 10:17 AM, scOtt said:

Years since last World Series win

1. Seattle, Washington(Montreal), Milwaukee(Seattle Pilots), TB, Colorado, Texas and SD have never won a World Series.

8. Cleveland 1948

9. Pittsburgh 1979

10. Baltimore 1983

11. Detroit 1984

12. NY Mets 1986

13. LA Dodgers 1988

14. Oakland 1989

15. Cincinnati 1990

16. Minnesota 1991

17. CitoStillSux 1993

18. Atlanta 1995

19. Arizona 2001

20. LAAofA near B pretty close to C 2002

21. Miami 2003

22. Chicago WS 2005

23. Philadelphia 2008

24. NY Yankees 2009

25. St. Louis 2011

26. SF 2014

27. KC 2015

28. Chicago Cubs 2016

29. Houston 2017

30. Boston reigning Champs

 

KC, Cubs, and Houston all winning recently have pushed the Orioles way down on the list.

[JR Oriole]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think fans who have experienced winning it all have a different take than fans who haven’t.   Let’s say the choice is (1) rooting for a team that contends 2 years out of 10 but wins 1 title, or (2) rooting for a team that contends 7 out of 10 times but never wins a title.    If you give that choice to fans who have already experienced winning a title, I think a majority would elect option 2 (in terms of what happens in the future).   Give that same choice to fans who have never won a title, and I think the majority would elect option 1.

For me, I care more about being engaged in the pennant race for six months and living and dying with every game, than I do about having a brief moment of intense happiness in October and then wondering what about next year.   

Of course, for folks who became fans after 1983, they’ve had the worst of both worlds — no titles and very few contending seasons.

I think this sums it up very nicely.  Although I would say that the brief moment of intense happiness in October is then followed (at least for me) by years and years of fond memories and looking back on that one year (or maybe more) where the team you love held up the trophy and had the parade through the streets of your city.  I have had that with other teams that I support, but not the one I care about the most. 

[DrungoHazewood]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think fans who have experienced winning it all have a different take than fans who haven’t.   Let’s say the choice is (1) rooting for a team that contends 2 years out of 10 but wins 1 title, or (2) rooting for a team that contends 7 out of 10 times but never wins a title.    If you give that choice to fans who have already experienced winning a title, I think a majority would elect option 2 (in terms of what happens in the future).   Give that same choice to fans who have never won a title, and I think the majority would elect option 1.

For me, I care more about being engaged in the pennant race for six months and living and dying with every game, than I do about having a brief moment of intense happiness in October and then wondering what about next year.   

Of course, for folks who became fans after 1983, they’ve had the worst of both worlds — no titles and very few contending seasons.

I had a championship when I was in the 6th grade and thought it was the way the world always was.  I'll take choice 2 every time.  The games and the season are what's enjoyable.  The stories, the characters, the Mike Devereaux homer off the foul pole.  The trophy at the end is always nice, if it ever happens, but there's so much randomness in the playoffs that saying you earned it is kind of an exaggeration.  The best teams go home empty handed a lot more often than not.

[PeteCanes]

13 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yep, all 5,947 fans who paid for a ticket to last Wednesday's game at the shiny, new stadium they tore down the Orange Bowl to build with hundreds of $millions in taxpayer money.  As they watched the guy Jeter traded for Giancarlo Stanton OPS .562.  At least for the moment the Marlins have a lower OPS than Chris Davis.

Since 2000 the Marlins have drawn 2 million fans in a season once.  The Orioles have done it 14 times.  Last year the Marlins drew 811k fans.  The Orioles last did that in 1964.

But that's all fine, since they won the 2003 World Series.

It was a sad sad day when the Orange Bowl was torn down.  So many memories.

[DrungoHazewood]

11 hours ago, PeteCanes said:

It was a sad sad day when the Orange Bowl was torn down.  So many memories.

Ah yes, I have that day where Tech played Miami and after every single first down a drunk Canes fan came down from another section and screamed at me.  And then there was the single loss in 2000 when Vick was hurt.  Although I do think I remember an overtime win somewhere in there...  I looked at the Orange Bowl as a kind of adventure, like a journey to the Amazon in 1898.