The rise and fall on the O's starting pitching

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

We'll be able to tell when they get called up.

Yes we will.

[mdbdotcom]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I didn't learn the Elias does not consider ST numbers.  I learned that he is watching his prospects service time closely.  That is why I think he sent Hay, Diaz and Santander down.

Then you are calling him a liar or not paying attention. He has stated several times that players were not sent down due to service time. He has also been quoted numerous times saying that he has learned over the years that in-season numbers in the majors and minors are more predictive of future production than spring training numbers.

If you aren't going to accept what he says when you have no proof to the contrary, why should anyone take you seriously?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Then you are calling him a liar or not paying attention. He has stated several times that players were not sent down due to service time. He has also been quoted numerous times saying that he has learned over the years that in-season numbers in the majors and minors are more predictive of future production than spring training numbers.

If you aren't going to accept what he says when you have no proof to the contrary, why should anyone take you seriously?

Would you expect Elias to say it's a service time issue?  He'd have to be pretty stupid to admit it right?

Let's wait and see what happens and if guys start getting promoted within a couple of days of when the O's get an extra year it's a pretty clear indication that service time was a factor.

If a week or more goes by and they are playing well and don't get promoted we know service time isn't a factor.

Gives us something to look forward to.

[mdbdotcom]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Would you expect Elias to say it's a service time issue?  He'd have to be pretty stupid to admit it right?

Let's wait and see what happens and if guys start getting promoted within a couple of days of when the O's get an extra year it's a pretty clear indication that service time was a factor.

If a week or more goes by and they are playing well and don't get promoted we know service time isn't a factor.

Gives us something to look forward to.

I have no expectations at all. I'm just taking him at his word until I have reason not to. Giving the new guy a chance before I spin everything he says into a conspiracy.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, mdbdotcom said:

I have no expectations at all. I'm just taking him at his word until I have reason not to. Giving the new guy a chance before I spin everything he says into a conspiracy.

He did say that spring training was going to be a competition right?  That kinda turned out to be less than accurate.

[jabba72]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He did say that spring training was going to be a competition right?  That kinda turned out to be less than accurate.

I dunno. I like his preference to have prospects earn their way to the club. Not just promoted because they have the highest ceiling down the road. 

[mdbdotcom]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He did say that spring training was going to be a competition right?  That kinda turned out to be less than accurate.

It was a competition for SS, 3B and  the catchers until they brought in Severino and sent down Sisco. Plenty of players competing for those slots.

He also said that regular season stats were more predictive of future performance than spring training stats and that player development was more important than bringing a player north before they had achieved success at the higher levels of the minors. So, the outfielders were sent down to complete their development. 

I don't find his statements contradictory. If we see players coming up who are not doing all that well but have reached their service clock deadlines, I'll probably think differently.

[wildcard]

24 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Then you are calling him a liar or not paying attention. He has stated several times that players were not sent down due to service time. He has also been quoted numerous times saying that he has learned over the years that in-season numbers in the majors and minors are more predictive of future production than spring training numbers.

If you aren't going to accept what he says when you have no proof to the contrary, why should anyone take you seriously?

Because MLB has rules about talking about service time so he could talk about it if he wanted to.

[wildcard]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Would you expect Elias to say it's a service time issue?  He'd have to be pretty stupid to admit it right?

Let's wait and see what happens and if guys start getting promoted within a couple of days of when the O's get an extra year it's a pretty clear indication that service time was a factor.

If a week or more goes by and they are playing well and don't get promoted we know service time isn't a factor.

Gives us something to look forward to.

Now how can that logic be argued with?

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

It was a competition for SS, 3B and  the catchers until they brought in Severino and sent down Sisco. Plenty of players competing for those slots.

He also said that regular season stats were more predictive of future performance than spring training stats and that player development was more important than bringing a player north before they had achieved success at the higher levels of the minors. So, the outfielders were sent down to complete their development. 

I don't find his statements contradictory. If we see players coming up who are not doing all that well but have reached their service clock deadlines, I'll probably think differently.

I don't know, we don't know really.  I think the Rule V guys had a clear advantage coming in but they did outperform the other options.

For the record I don't expect him to be entirely honest, wouldn't be smart.

I do like the whole we had a competition at catcher until we didn't bit.

[mdbdotcom]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Now how can that logic be argued with?

So, maybe we should wait until some of the service time clocks pass before making accusations as if they are facts?

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

I dunno. I like his preference to have prospects earn their way to the club. Not just promoted because they have the highest ceiling down the road. 

Not sure what Mullins did last season to be a lock to stay in the majors.

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

I have no expectations at all. I'm just taking him at his word until I have reason not to. Giving the new guy a chance before I spin everything he says into a conspiracy.

If some reporter asks him whether service time is a factor and there is a league rule that say he can't talk about it he is not going to say that service time is  involve.  He went to Yale.  He knows the game.

[mdbdotcom]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

If some reporter asks him whether service time is a factor and there is a league rule that say he can't talk about it he is not going to say that service time is  involve.  He went to Yale.  He knows the game.

We just see it differently. For me the service clock argument makes little sense because Diaz is probably the only position prospect for whom it will matter. The other prospects are fine as far as Orioles prospects go, but none of them is the next Bregman.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

So, maybe we should wait until some of the service time clocks pass before making accusations as if they are facts?

I am not making accusations.  I am predicting what I think will happen based on what happened in Houston.