My 3 main concerns so far

[interloper]

1. Bundy: Can they sort him out? 2 short outings so far. A ton of pitches. The fastball is 90-92 which seems to be where it's going to stay. He got a bunch of K's with it in his first outing, but the slider has not looked quite as dominant. So far it doesn't seem like any analytical stuff has helped him, but I honestly do not know how long some of that stuff takes to implement. And of course, it won't work for everyone. I have no idea what Bundy's future is. 5th starter? Bullpen guy? Does he turn it around and become a trade chip? All seem about as likely. 
    
2. Mullins: Even if you didn't buy him as a starting CF, I don't think anyone predicted him to be this bad. He not only has the minor league pedigree, but a relatively decent effort in the majors at the end of last year. The lineup is a lot better if he's even a .240 hitter out there. He should not be hitting worse than Ruiz, etc. But it's early. 
    
3. Karns: Couldn't get through an inning his last appearance and the fastball velocity slipped into the high 80s. Hopefully he's healthy, but it seems like he's not a guy that's going to get stretched out anytime soon. It looks like he has to be babied a little bit, which is fine if he's a weapon out of the 'pen. We shall see. 

[interloper]

I'm leaving out Davis here because, well, it's obvious and we just have to deal with it. 

[Tony-OH]

Just now, interloper said:

1. Bundy: Can they sort him out? 2 short outings so far. A ton of pitches. The fastball is 90-92 which seems to be where it's going to stay. He got a bunch of K's with it in his first outing, but the slider has not looked quite as dominant. So far it doesn't seem like any analytical stuff has helped him, but I honestly do not know how long some of that stuff takes to implement. And of course, it won't work for everyone. I have no idea what Bundy's future is. 5th starter? Bullpen guy? Does he turn it around and become a trade chip? All seem about as likely. 
    
2. Mullins: Even if you didn't buy him as a starting CF, I don't think anyone predicted him to be this bad. He not only has the minor league pedigree, but a relatively decent effort in the majors at the end of last year. The lineup is a lot better if he's even a .240 hitter out there. He should not be hitting worse than Ruiz, etc. But it's early. 
    
3. Karns: Couldn't get through an inning his last appearance and the fastball velocity slipped into the high 80s. Hopefully he's healthy, but it seems like he's not a guy that's going to get stretched out anytime soon. It looks like he has to be babied a little bit, which is fine if he's a weapon out of the 'pen. We shall see. 

I'm wondering if Karn's rest requirements will not allow him to be able to pitch effectively out of the pen. Can't keep a guy who can only pitch two innings at a time but needs five days rest in between.

He has an option so I'd consider optioning him to Norfolk and see if he can build up a bit to be able to help.

I think Mullins gets six weeks or so, but other than starting Rickard everyday in CF, there's not a lot of good options to replace him with Hays on the IL with the wrist injury. Santander is probably more ready to contribute at this point though.

Bundy? Let's just say for a guy with middling stuff, he makes a lot of mistakes in the middle of the plate and they aren't missed much.

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

1. Bundy: Can they sort him out? 2 short outings so far. A ton of pitches. The fastball is 90-92 which seems to be where it's going to stay. He got a bunch of K's with it in his first outing, but the slider has not looked quite as dominant. So far it doesn't seem like any analytical stuff has helped him, but I honestly do not know how long some of that stuff takes to implement. And of course, it won't work for everyone. I have no idea what Bundy's future is. 5th starter? Bullpen guy? Does he turn it around and become a trade chip? All seem about as likely. 
    
2. Mullins: Even if you didn't buy him as a starting CF, I don't think anyone predicted him to be this bad. He not only has the minor league pedigree, but a relatively decent effort in the majors at the end of last year. The lineup is a lot better if he's even a .240 hitter out there. He should not be hitting worse than Ruiz, etc. But it's early. 
    
3. Karns: Couldn't get through an inning his last appearance and the fastball velocity slipped into the high 80s. Hopefully he's healthy, but it seems like he's not a guy that's going to get stretched out anytime soon. It looks like he has to be babied a little bit, which is fine if he's a weapon out of the 'pen. We shall see. 

1.  Looks like an increasingly chance of no.

2.  I don't buy him as being a starting CF.  Anyone who comes in here with the "SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!" argument needs to get their head checked.  There's a small sample size and then there's just not looking good.  

3.  Whatever.

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

1.  Looks like an increasingly chance of no.

2.  I don't buy him as being a starting CF.  Anyone who comes in here with the "SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!" argument needs to get their head checked.  There's a small sample size and then there's just not looking good.  

3.  Whatever.

Haha. Well, for Mullins, I certainly don't think he's a starting CF. However I don't believe he is a "below .100" hitter, either. We know he can be at least a decent 4th outfielder type of hitter with some power. I'm not sure what to make of his struggles right now. He looks a little lost out there. 

For Karns, I hear your whatever, but it has a trickle down effect on the bullpen, which Hyde has really struggled to sort out. Now he has to juggle Straily in there for a bit, too. What is Karns if he isn't a bullpen guy or a starter? Tony's option idea might not be a bad call, but let's see what his next outing looks like. 

[TonySoprano]

13 minutes ago, interloper said:

Mullins: Even if you didn't buy him as a starting CF, I don't think anyone predicted him to be this bad. He not only has the minor league pedigree, but a relatively decent effort in the majors at the end of last year. The lineup is a lot better if he's even a .240 hitter out there. He should not be hitting worse than Ruiz, etc. But it's early. 

Mullins had a good August, 2018.  Since September 1, in 35 games, 129 ABs, Mullins' line is .171/.262/.217/.438  31K

[interloper]

Just now, TonySoprano said:

Mullins had a good August, 2018.  Since September 1, in 35 games, Mullins' line is .171/.262/.217/.438  31K

Mm. Well that's fair. 

What I find interesting is Elias eluded to some metrics that indicate he'll be a productive major leaguer. I wonder what those are. 

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

Haha. Well, for Mullins, I certainly don't think he's a starting CF. However I don't believe he is a "below .100" hitter, either. We know he can be at least a decent 4th outfielder type of hitter with some power. I'm not sure what to make of his struggles right now. He looks a little lost out there. 

For Karns, I hear your whatever, but it has a trickle down effect on the bullpen, which Hyde has really struggled to sort out. Now he has to juggle Straily in there for a bit, too. What is Karns if he isn't a bullpen guy or a starter? Tony's option idea might not be a bad call, but let's see what his next outing looks like. 

I agree with the trickle down effect idea.   Just have doubts as to whether or not Karns is any kind of a solution.

[interloper]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

I agree with the trickle down effect idea.   Just have doubts as to whether or not Karns is any kind of a solution.

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, he doesn't really matter, like most of the players on this current 25-man roster. Lol...

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm wondering if Karn's rest requirements will not allow him to be able to pitch effectively out of the pen. Can't keep a guy who can only pitch two innings at a time but needs five days rest in between.

He has an option so I'd consider optioning him to Norfolk and see if he can build up a bit to be able to help.

I think Mullins gets six weeks or so, but other than starting Rickard everyday in CF, there's not a lot of good options to replace him with Hays on the IL with the wrist injury. Santander is probably more ready to contribute at this point though.

Bundy? Let's just say for a guy with middling stuff, he makes a lot of mistakes in the middle of the plate and they aren't missed much.

Good points.    I think Hays has a sprained thumb, not a wrist injury.   Not important but that’s the second time I’ve seen someone mention it being a wrist so it’s worthwhile to clarify.   Based on a tweet from him a few days ago, I’m hopeful he’ll be back soon.   

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheAustinHaysss/status/1113874141583745025

And no, waiting does not seem to be helping it embed.    

[Going Underground]

23 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm wondering if Karn's rest requirements will not allow him to be able to pitch effectively out of the pen. Can't keep a guy who can only pitch two innings at a time but needs five days rest in between.

He has an option so I'd consider optioning him to Norfolk and see if he can build up a bit to be able to help.

I think Mullins gets six weeks or so, but other than starting Rickard everyday in CF, there's not a lot of good options to replace him with Hays on the IL with the wrist injury. Santander is probably more ready to contribute at this point though.

Bundy? Let's just say for a guy with middling stuff, he makes a lot of mistakes in the middle of the plate and they aren't missed much.

I  saw today in something I read that Hyde is now comfortable using Karns in back to back games. Wont be a starter this year due to whatever happened in Spring Training and issues with not being able to start this year . I wonder if they would have signed him if they knew he was not going to start?

[foxfield]

My concerns are different.  I think keeping the players focused and maintaining a fire and drive in the face of, well failure is going to be huge.  The task for a rookie manager will be immense.  

Bundy should be enough of a pitcher to stop making so many mistakes.  But the reality is that whether he does or does not is irrelevant to the next successful Oriole team.

Mullins is young enough to give more rope to, but he does not look like an answer and it becomes increasingly obvious that he may not even be a place holder.

Karns is another guy we are trying to use to mop up innings.  If we are focused on the future he is something to endure, not remember.  He is a plank in the road to where we are going.

We will see new and younger players in time.  But my concerns are simply can we maintain a focused team at the MLB level and allow proper development of prospects on the farm.  The two goals are completely separate and if the Orioles are not very careful with one, they could fail at both.

[Going Underground]

2 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

I  saw today in something I read that Hyde is now comfortable using Karns in back to back games. Wont be a starter this year due to whatever happened in Spring Training and issues with not being able to start this year . I wonder if they would have signed him if they knew he was not going to start?

 Found the article.

Meanwhile, right-hander Nate Karns will be a full-time reliever going forward. Karns signed with the Orioles in the offseason and entered spring training in the competition for a rotation spot, but he didn’t recover as hoped from his first spring start was moved to the bullpen. He pitched two innings as the starter of the Orioles’ previous two bullpen games and made his first relief appearance since April 2017 on Saturday. Hyde said Karns is available to pitch back-to-back days if needed.

“I think that once we felt in spring where maybe stretching him out isn't the right thing to do and maybe for his arm health, shorter spurts might be the best way to go, especially breaking camp, kinda seeing how he was recovering,” Hyde said. “We feel like now is just the time to put him in the bullpen and just let him be a regular bullpen arm. He's comfortable doing both things, but once you get above the two-, three-inning deal with him, you've got some recovery time, and now that we have five starters, we feel comfortable with him being in the 'pen and just being more of usable bullpen piece.”

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-john-means-oakland-as-20190407-story.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

[wildcard]

With the addition of Means to the rotation the O's have six starters without Karns.    It looks like a battle between Means, Bundy and Straily for the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation.

It would not be the worse thing to see Karns optioned  so he can work his way back to full health.  But I think we have to see more of him to know were he is in his recovery.

 

[interloper]

Just now, foxfield said:

My concerns are different.  I think keeping the players focused and maintaining a fire and drive in the face of, well failure is going to be huge.  The task for a rookie manager will be immense.  

Bundy should be enough of a pitcher to stop making so many mistakes.  But the reality is that whether he does or does not is irrelevant to the next successful Oriole team.

Mullins is young enough to give more rope to, but he does not look like an answer and it becomes increasingly obvious that he may not even be a place holder.

Karns is another guy we are trying to use to mop up innings.  If we are focused on the future he is something to endure, not remember.  He is a plank in the road to where we are going.

We will see new and younger players in time.  But my concerns are simply can we maintain a focused team at the MLB level and allow proper development of prospects on the farm.  The two goals are completely separate and if the Orioles are not very careful with one, they could fail at both.

Good thoughts, and I agree.

If I had another concern just at the superficial ML level, it's that the team cannot really rely on Villar and Mancini alone to carry an offense. They're doing a great job so far, but it's not realistic. There are so many holes in the lineup: Mullins, the catcher spot, Martin, Davis, Ruiz. The challenge is going to be maintaining some level of respectability and morale at the ML level while things percolate below. Elias has shown he'll make moves to support Hyde and tweak the ML roster, and I think he'll continue to churn it by mixing in other non-prospects in the early going to stabilize things.