Jump to content

How bad are the umpires?


schittenden

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Umpires making mistakes is part of the game. How many times did Weaver  kick dirt on the home plate umpire? They’ve always made mistakes. We can’t take the human out of the game. 

We could by hold the quality of their work more accountable as verified by today's technology.  Write the accountability into the next CBA and have the union forego seniority protections. Relegate the umpires to the minors if they fall below certain report cards as graded by the solid tech that we have on this issue.  

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Umpires making mistakes is part of the game. How many times did Weaver  kick dirt on the home plate umpire? They’ve always made mistakes. We can’t take the human out of the game. 

Food poisoning is always a risk when eating out.  How many times has Carol complained to the waitstaff?  Cooks always make mistakes.  We can't take the risk of illness out of dining out.

 

I'm in favor of getting things right.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Food poisoning is always a risk when eating out.  How many times has Carol complained to the waitstaff?  Cooks always make mistakes.  We can't take the risk of illness out of dining out.

 

I'm in favor of getting things right.

In cooking absolutely but with a game not so much. Mistakes in a game to make people sick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Umpires making mistakes is part of the game. How many times did Weaver  kick dirt on the home plate umpire? They’ve always made mistakes. We can’t take the human out of the game. 

We can sure try to take it out of the umps. 

It was one thing to be in 1975 and say there's no way to tell what the right call really was.  But today?  There's multiple replays and highly accurate tracking systems of every major league play.  You're telling everyone from the fans to the players to the managers to the guy flipping hot dogs that the call was unambiguously wrong and we think that's fine because humans are flawed.  And there's no way we'll let replays and reviews disrupt the flow of a game that has natural pauses every 12 seconds and we also can't be bothered to stop managers from using 11 mid-inning pitching changes a game. 

Making sure calls are wrong seems like a strange place to draw the line and fight for tradition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

We can sure try to take it out of the umps. 

It was one thing to be in 1975 and say there's no way to tell what the right call really was.  But today?  There's multiple replays and highly accurate tracking systems of every major league play.  You're telling everyone from the fans to the players to the managers to the guy flipping hot dogs that the call was unambiguously wrong and we think that's fine because humans are flawed.  And we're disrupting the flow of a game that has natural pauses every 12 seconds and we also can't be bothered to stop managers from using 11 mid-inning pitching changes a game. 

Making sure calls are wrong seems like a strange place to draw the line and fight for tradition.

Better than throwing at a guy's head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm in favor of getting things right.

And this should be the only thing that matters. Well, not you, the idea the game can get it right.

I wouldn’t care if some of those guys impersonating a home plate umpire lost their job over it. Relax, just having a little joke. We all know umpires don’t lose their jobs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

Umpires making mistakes is part of the game. 

No.

No.

A thousand times NO. 

It really burns me when people presume the umpires are “part of the game”. They are not, and never have been a part of the game. The fans are not, and never have been part of the game. Umpire mistakes are on par with fans running on the field in the middle of the game or reaching over the fence to interfere with balls in play — acts to be manifestly condemned (when the mistakes are egregious) and avoided at all cost. 

The players and managers are part of the game. Players and managers making mistakes are part of the game. Umpires are a necessary evil. 

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, weams said:

We could by hold the quality of their work more accountable as verified by today's technology.  Write the accountability into the next CBA and have the union forego seniority protections. Relegate the umpires to the minors if they fall below certain report cards as graded by the solid tech that we have on this issue.  

Statistics show umpires have gotten significantly better at calling balls and strikes over the last 10 years.    But they are still wrong quite often.   

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Statistics show umpires have gotten significantly better at calling balls and strikes over the last 10 years.    But they are still wrong quite often.   

Before 1999 they were right all the time, since prior to the mass resignation the rulebook was just guidance.  The umps ruled by decree.  If the home plate ump decided to call stuff 18" off the plate a strike that was the rule.

At least now there's general consensus that the rules are above the umps in the hierarchy.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
    • I was a lot younger back then, but that betrayal hit really hard because he had been painting himself as literally holier than thou, and shook his finger to a congressional committee and then barely 2 weeks later failed the test.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...