Mancini Trade Package

[Il BuonO]

10 minutes ago, atomic said:

I am not sure why everyone overrated Mancini. Why do you overrate him?  You can see his WAR this season and last can't you?  I am not sure what your parable has to do with anything.  It is pretty common for most people to be wrong about something.  That is why we had the real estate market crash and the internet bubble of 2000.  I tried arguing with people about both of these before they happened but people like to have the same opinion of everyone else for some reason. 

Can you show one example of where I did that?

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, atomic said:

I am the one that is objective.  Everyone else is irrational in regards to Mancini.  

You remind me of the old guy who is driving on the freeway.    His wife calls his cell phone and says “Joe, be careful, I just heard on the radio that some guy is driving on the wrong side of the freeway.”    He answers in a panic, “it’s not just one guy, it’s everybody!”

You’re always trying to set up a scenario where everyone else holds a certain view on a player or an issue, and everyone’s wrong but you.    But not everybody here holds the same opinion of Mancini, or any other player on the team.   Opinions on Mancini vary widely here.

For me, it hasn’t escaped my notice that Mancini has cooled off considerably after his hot start to the season.    I think his trade value depends a bit on how he hits over the next 6-7 weeks.    I think he’s probably marketable, but I’m not expecting that high of a return.   

[Redskins Rick]

11 minutes ago, atomic said:

I am not sure why everyone overrated Mancini. Why do you overrate him?  You can see his WAR this season and last can't you?  I am not sure what your parable has to do with anything.  It is pretty common for most people to be wrong about something.  That is why we had the real estate market crash and the internet bubble of 2000.  I tried arguing with people about both of these before they happened but people like to have the same opinion of everyone else for some reason. 

Everybody sucked last season, kinda of hard to make judgements based on that.

The real estate crashed, because of improper appraisals and a host of bad banking practices that have since been changed. Not to mention all the Fannie Mae issues.

You complain about everything, so you get a few things right, once in a while, but look at how many you dont get right.

None of that is mundane to the discussion.

You undervalue everybody on the team, and over value the rest of the league.

Your viewpoint of discussion, is, I am right, and I dont brother to read or think about what the other person wrote.

 

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You remind me of the old guy who is driving on the freeway.    His wife calls his cell phone and says “Joe, be careful, I just heard on the radio that some guy is driving on the wrong side of the freeway.”    He answers in a panic, “it’s not just one guy, it’s everybody!”

 You’re always trying to set up a scenario where everyone else holds a certain view on a player or an issue, and everyone’s wrong but you.    But not everybody here holds the same opinion of Mancini, or any other player on the team.   Opinions on Mancini vary widely here.

For me, it hasn’t escaped my notice that Mancini has cooled off considerably after his hot start to the season.    I think his trade value depends a bit on how he hits over the next 6-7 weeks.    I think he’s probably marketable, but I’m not expecting that high of a return.   

Do we have to continue with the stupid parables? There are often times when one person is right and everyone else is wrong. People are ignoring his stats.   People were trying to say Chris Davis was an all-star a few weeks ago and everyone was arguing with me when I said he was just as bad as before.  Including you  I believe. 

[Philip]

25 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Reminds me of the story; you run into an a-hole in the morning you ran into an a-hole. You run into a-holes all day, you’re the a-hole.

Don’t be insulting. Please. It just cheapens this environment. disagree all you want but please, don’t be insulting.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, atomic said:

Do we have to continue with the stupid parables? There are often times when one person is right and everyone else is wrong. People are ignoring his stats.   People were trying to say Chris Davis was an all-star a few weeks ago and everyone was arguing with me when I said he was just as bad as before.  Including you  I believe. 

It’s not a parable, it’s a joke.   Trying to lighten the mood here, if that’s even possible with you.   And you are simply wrong if you think everybody but you holds the exact same opinion of Mancini.    

I’m sure anything I said about Davis was more nuanced then some comic book version you’re recalling.   And lots of people weren’t sold just because he had a hot streak.    Holding out some hope that it meant something, maybe.   

[Il BuonO]

Just now, Philip said:

Don’t be insulting. Please. It just cheapens this environment. disagree all you want but please, don’t be insulting.

Wasn’t addressing you. Sorry to offend, was meant in jest.

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Everybody sucked last season, kinda of hard to make judgements based on that.

The real estate crashed, because of improper appraisals and a host of bad banking practices that have since been changed. Not to mention all the Fannie Mae issues.

 You complain about everything, so you get a few things right, once in a while, but look at how many you dont get right.

 None of that is mundane to the discussion.

You undervalue everybody on the team, and over value the rest of the league.

Your viewpoint of discussion, is, I am right, and I dont brother to read or think about what the other person wrote.

 

When people conclude that Mancini is some great player I am going to argue that.  

I have high hopes for DJ Stewart.  I look at stats and watch players play.  I am not going to conform to group think just because that is what people do in general.  Why even have a discussion?

I was wrong on Machado's contract and admitted as much.  I should just stick to things that are performance based. 

Also what are the things that I get wrong.  At the beginning of the season people were saying this team was going to be better than expected.  And I said with the current roster this is a historically bad team.  You can't just take a bunch of waiver claims and rule 5 guys and turn it into a good team. 

I said Nunez should be released and people are saying that I was wrong when the Stats still show him as a bad ball player.  Either he can play the field and do it at least average or he doesn't hit well enough to be in the big leagues. 

[Philip]

Mancini is only playable at first base. Nobody is going to surrender anything meaningful for him to be a designated hitter, because designated hitters are plentiful. Heck, a team can go out and get Danny Valencia or Pedro Alvarez off their respective couches.

Considering he was the 249th player drafted, Mancini has already had a splendid career.

But he doesn’t have as much value as a trade item as he does to us, and that is unlikely to change significantly. I would be happy to trade him, although I know I would not get anything significant back. At the moment it is probably better to keep him until our other first base-only players(and we sure have several of those, thanks Dan) start knocking on the door.

The only reason I can think of for trading him now is to clear the log jam, and that would be a trade based on a roster crunch, and not on anything significant he would bring in return.

 

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s not a parable, it’s a joke.   Trying to lighten the mood here, if that’s even possible with you.   And you are simply wrong if you think everybody but you holds the exact same opinion of Mancini.    

 I’m sure anything I said about Davis was more nuanced then some comic book version you’re recalling.   And lots of people weren’t sold just because he had a hot streak.    Holding out some hope that it meant something, maybe.   

I even provided the same number of games of hot streak he had in 2018 and everyone was still arguing with this time being different. Difference was in 2019 when Davis was hot Hyde was picking games where Davis was most likely to succeed.  Soon as he played every day and facing tougher pitching he went back to form. 

Who knows maybe  Mancini becomes a 1.5 WAR a year player and I was mistaken. I don't see a problem with keeping to see if he can succeed but to think he is going to give you much in return is unlikely. As long as he is out of the outfield I would like to see him play everyday for the rest of the year. 

[Il BuonO]

12 minutes ago, atomic said:

When people conclude that Mancini is some great player I am going to argue that.  

I have high hopes for DJ Stewart.  I look at stats and watch players play.  I am not going to conform to group think just because that is what people do in general.  Why even have a discussion?

I said Nunez should be released and people are saying that I was wrong when the Stats still show him as a bad ball player.  Either he can play the field and do it at least average or he doesn't hit well enough to be in the big leagues. 

This is why you get stories related to your ‘perception’. Where is evidence of the groupthink stating Mancini is a great player? It isn’t there.

There are a couple discussions of trade proposals that get some pushback, but nothing close to what you’re describing. I can’t find one example of a poster who considers Mancini a great player. So, what exactly are you arguing?

FWIW, I agree about Nunez

[Yardball85]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

I am the one that is objective.  Everyone else is irrational in regards to Mancini.  

You're not objective.  You are negative every opportunity you get.  Mancini is a solid player who could net a solid return with his years of control left.  

You don't come off as objective when everything you say is negative.  No one is impressed.

[atomic]

5 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

You're not objective.  You are negative every opportunity you get.  Mancini is a solid player who could net a solid return with his years of control left.  

You don't come off as objective when everything you say is negative.  No one is impressed.

I am not negative at all.  I am realistic.  This is a terrible team.  I have high hopes for DJ Stewart and Mountcastle.   I have said good things about Villar. I think Hanser Alberto is going to be a good player.  Cashner and Means are pitching great.  

If you take the worst outfielder I have ever seen play he is going to have to be better at the bat than Mancini. I can see if everything goes right Mancini could put up 1 to 1.5 WAR at first.  I think he is less than 1 WAR player though.  

I see Villar and Cashner as our best trade chips.  Villar plays Second and Short and he hits decently.  Some team will have a need.   And Starting pitching that can eat innings is always needed by every team. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Do we have to continue with the stupid parables? There are often times when one person is right and everyone else is wrong. People are ignoring his stats.   People were trying to say Chris Davis was an all-star a few weeks ago and everyone was arguing with me when I said he was just as bad as before.  Including you  I believe. 

This must be the dumbest place in the world, since you think that the vast majority of people here are always wrong and since you hold the opposite opinion you must be right.

I think the more likely case is that you get an unusual level of joy out of being the king of the contrarians.  Whatever the topic is, you get immense pleasure out of telling the those who hold the consensus opinion that they're stupider than a bag of hammers.

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

This must be the dumbest place in the world, since you think that the vast majority of people here are always wrong and since you hold the opposite opinion you must be right.

I think the more likely case is that you get an unusual level of joy out of being the king of the contrarians.  Whatever the topic is, you get immense pleasure out of telling the those who hold the consensus opinion that they're stupider than a bag of hammers.

I think actually that is the case with you.  You seem to argue the opposite of whatever my opinion is.  No  matter how well thought out or logical my reasoning.