Must Read: Review of the Baysox rotation

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Yes, they shouldn't be promoted until they are ready.   Whenever that is.  I just think some of them  may be ready in the 2nd half of next season.

Sure, that is possible.   Let’s see how they do in Norfolk, adjusting to the major league balls, etc.    I just don’t want them promoted out of need because the Eshelmans of the world aren’t getting the job done.    Promote them when ready, and not before, no matter what kind of debacle is taking place at the major league level.   

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sure, that is possible.   Let’s see how they do in Norfolk, adjusting to the major league balls, etc.    I just don’t want them promoted out of need because the Eshelmans of the world aren’t getting the job done.    Promote them when ready, and not before, no matter what kind of debacle is taking place at the major league level.   

 Agree. They are not winning anything next year anyway.

[Philip]

6 hours ago, Aglets said:

Now do Gunnar Henderson.....have you guys seen what he's doing in the GCL lately!??!!??!?!

Maybe they can give him a shot over this Martin schmuck in ST?!!?!?!

I'm dying to know if it will be 2023 or 2024.

Is Henderson a short stop? I don’t recall.

[Philip]

5 hours ago, Sessh said:

It does seem like Elias is willing to promote guys who are wild cards (no pun intended) or unlikelies (not a word, I know) to see which players, if any, can become major league ballplayers when thrown into the fire.

Yes that’s exactly what I’ve been wanting all season, even if the guy thrown into the fire lights up like cigarette paper.

My response to your comment t’other day emphasized that.

(Its a digression, but when we got off the plane I was happy to see that Shepherd did well in his debut. Hope he remains for a while.)

[Philip]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

If the O's add Mountcastle to this offense they probably have a league average offense.   The question is when will the pitching be good enough to make the O's a league average team.

Will they have a league average defense? My biggest disappointment this season has been the continued laughable defense. I’m sure we’ve improved, but not enough to move any needle.

[Philip]

3 hours ago, TGO said:

Bringing him up in September to make, say, two starts or a handful of relief appearances also doesn't guarantee him a spot out of Spring Training next year. You can send him back to Norfolk again if you feel it's merited (or you want to play the service time game).

I don't think there's really a wrong answer here with Akin.

Does a September callup burn an option?

[Philip]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Why. Also, I don't believe much in development. They either have "it" or they don't. Development get you a Caleb Joseph career. Having talent gets you a Trout deal. 

(Applause) excellent comment. Development allows you turn your abilities into skills.When you have reached your plateau, whatever it is, further development is just wasted.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

Does a September callup burn an option?

You option a player to the minors.

[weams]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You option a player to the minors.

I think he was concerned about adding to the 40 man. Maybe. 

[Philip]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You option a player to the minors.It is my understanding that optioning a player is back-and-forth. Calling a guy up doesn’t use an option, but a round trip does.

If you call him up and send him down, that’s an option. My question is whether a September callup uses an option. Because of course everyone we call up will go back down at some point.

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, Philip said:

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It is my understanding that optioning a player is back-and-forth. Calling a guy up doesn’t use an option, but a round trip does.

If you call him up and send him down, that’s an option. My question is whether a September callup uses an option. Because of course everyone we call up will go back down at some point.

 

1. It's a 40 man roster.  Why would you need to send people down?
2. The minor league seasons will be over, where would you be sending them?

[Philip]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

1. It's a 40 man roster.  Why would you need to send people down?
2. The minor league seasons will be over, where would you be sending them?

Ok, it’s clear I need a refresher. If you add a guy to the 40-man and call him to the big leagues and then send him back to the minors, that uses an option.

If you add him to the 40-man after the minor league season and call him up in September and then send him down in, say, March, your comment implies that that does not burn an option. Otherwise why would the status of the minor league season matter?

oh heck I need to read up on options, I guess. 

BBL.

[Philip]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

1. It's a 40 man roster.  Why would you need to send people down?
2. The minor league seasons will be over, where would you be sending them?

“All players start with 3 at the beginning of their career. The first time a player is added to a club's 40-man roster, his option clock starts ticking. Any subsequent season in which the player accrues 20 or more days on optional assignment (i.e. days on a minor league club from the start of the regular season until the team's final game including playoffs), an option year will be burned.   If he's on the big league club for the season or on optional assignment for less than 20 days during the season, he doesn't burn an option.”

 So, if I understood this correctly, a player  called up for in September wont burn an option Until he has sent back down for more than 20 days, But putting him on 40 man roster starts the option process.

ok I think I have it.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

“All players start with 3 at the beginning of their career. The first time a player is added to a club's 40-man roster, his option clock starts ticking. Any subsequent season in which the player accrues 20 or more days on optional assignment (i.e. days on a minor league club from the start of the regular season until the team's final game including playoffs), an option year will be burned.   If he's on the big league club for the season or on optional assignment for less than 20 days during the season, he doesn't burn an option.”

 So, if I understood this correctly, a player  called up for in September wont burn an option Until he has sent back down for more than 20 days, But putting him on 40 man roster starts the option process.

ok I think I have it.

Except for one more thing. (from wiki)

Quote

A team may have a fourth option year on a player with less than five full seasons of professional experience, provided that both conditions below are met.

1. A player has not spent at least 90 days on an active professional roster in a season. Minor leagues that play below Class A Advanced have seasons that are shorter than 90 days, and as such, any player who spends a full season in a rookie or Class A (short-season) league will receive a fourth option year.
2. A player has not spent at least 60 days on an active professional roster AND then at least 30 days on a disabled list in a season. Only after 60 days have been spent on an active professional roster does time spent on the disabled list count towards the 90-day threshold. As with the prior example, this cannot occur with players who spend a full season in a rookie or Class A (short season) league.

 

[SteveA]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

You want reasons. I will give you reasons.

1) 4.36 ERA at AAA.  

2) 1.49 WHIP at AAA.

3) 6.14 ERA  vs lefties at AAA

4) 1.77 WHIP vs lefties at AAA 

5) Elias is not a big believer.  Didn't invite him to ST.

 6) Service time

He is not ready for the majors yet.

He is putting up those numbers in part because they are forcing him to develop his secondary pitches.   When he put up #s in the lower minors he was basically doing it with his fastball and the previous regime let him do that.   Which probably puts him behind the development curve that Elias would have liked.

I also think that there might be judgments on guys based on metrics we don't even know exist, like things that measure command, spin rate, vertical drop, etc.   Same for hitters.   I don't know this, but  you don't have all these advanced metrics, camera/computer systems that let you measure all sorts of proprietary things, and not use them.   We can site there and judge a guy based on the numbers we can see, but it's possible that Elias is making decisions based on a whole bunch of things we can't see.