Roch: "I don't expect Villar back with the O's in 2020."

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Can you literally break down a metaphorical door? 

Since literally can now mean figuratively why not?

[wildbillhiccup]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think that has probably never happened.   Looking at the Astros, the lowest average age of their position players was 25.5, in the third year of their rebuild.    Even then, three of their top 10 position players were 27-28 years old.   And by 2017 when they won it all, their average age was 28.9.   

You're splitting hairs with me. So let's say "average" age then. My point is really that 29 and 30 years are part of the future of this team. 

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Since literally can now mean figuratively why not?

I think you need to re-read the dictionary definition of literally. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I think you need to re-read the dictionary definition of literally. 

I think I just had this discussion on the board a couple days ago and the definition I quoted then should still be up.

Merriam Webster:

literally

adverb

lit·er·al·ly | \ ˈli-tə-rə-lē

 

, ˈli-trə-lē, ˈli-tər-lē\

Definition of literally

 

1 : in a literal sense or manner: such as

a : in a way that uses the ordinary or primary meaning of a term or expression He took the remark literally. a word that can be used both literally and figuratively

b —used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description The party was attended by literally hundreds of people.

c : with exact equivalence : with the meaning of each individual word given exactly The term "Mardi Gras" literally means "Fat Tuesday" in French.

d : in a completely accurate way a story that is basically true even if not literally true

2 : in effect : virtually —used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice— Norman Cousins

 

Maybe dictionary.com?

 

4- in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually: I literally died when she walked out on stage in that costume.

 

How about the Cambridge?

informal used to emphasize what you are saying:

He missed that kick literally by miles.

I was literally bowled over by the news.

[Can_of_corn]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/misuse-of-literally

[wildbillhiccup]

34 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think I just had this discussion on the board a couple days ago and the definition I quoted then should still be up.

Merriam Webster:

literally

adverb

lit·er·al·ly | \ ˈli-tə-rə-lē

 

, ˈli-trə-lē, ˈli-tər-lē\

Definition of literally

 

1 : in a literal sense or manner: such as

a : in a way that uses the ordinary or primary meaning of a term or expression He took the remark literally. a word that can be used both literally and figuratively

b —used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description The party was attended by literally hundreds of people.

c : with exact equivalence : with the meaning of each individual word given exactly The term "Mardi Gras" literally means "Fat Tuesday" in French.

d : in a completely accurate way a story that is basically true even if not literally true

2 : in effect : virtually —used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice— Norman Cousins

 

Maybe dictionary.com?

 

4- in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually: I literally died when she walked out on stage in that costume.

 

How about the Cambridge?

informal used to emphasize what you are saying:

He missed that kick literally by miles.

I was literally bowled over by the news.

So we dumbed down the meaning in 2013 because people couldn't figure out how to use the word properly? Greaaaaaaaaaaaat. 

[theocean]

52 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

You're splitting hairs with me. So let's say "average" age then. My point is really that 29 and 30 years are part of the future of this team. 

The best middle infield prospects that the O's have right now are Gunnar Henderson (He's 18), Adam Hall (20, Delmarva), Cadyn Grenier (22, Frederick), and Rylan Bannon (22, Bowie). We also saw plenty of Richie Martin this year.

Why are you in such a hurry to jettison Villar? The impact prospects are still a ways away and I'm sure Hyde can figure out how to get Rylan Bannon some at-bats if they really need to.

Yeah, Villar is going to be on the other side of 30 by the time the O's are good again. Just because he's on the roster in 2019 or 2020 doesn't mean they have to be married to him forever.

[Luke-OH]

18 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

So we dumbed down the meaning in 2013 because people couldn't figure out how to use the word properly? Greaaaaaaaaaaaat. 

Language is a fluid thing, new meanings to old words is something that happens with some frequency, I wouldn't call it dumbing down. The term "dumbing down" is fairly new in the whole scope of the English language, coming into fashion in 1933. 

[canonfaz]

8 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

The term "dumbing down" is fairly new in the whole scope of the English language, coming into fashion in 1933. 

It came into fashion in my vocabulary around October 4th 2016. 

[Bubble Buddy]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure.

But I wouldn't expect this to only take two or three years.  Not in this division.

It's a tough division. And the Blue Jays and Rays are ahead of us in the rebuild. But, I will say this, the Red Sox look more vulnerable than I expected. If they can fall off some, that would help.

[Can_of_corn]

40 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

So we dumbed down the meaning in 2013 because people couldn't figure out how to use the word properly? Greaaaaaaaaaaaat. 

If you had read the article I linked to you would see that the word had been used in such a fashion since 1769 and the 1909 version of Merriam Websters included a definition supporting that usage.

As for dumbing down?  That same article shows examples of such noted authors as F. Scott Fitzgerald, James Joyce, W. M. Thackeray and Charlotte Brontë using it in such a fashion.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bubble Buddy said:

It's a tough division. And the Blue Jays and Rays are ahead of us in the rebuild. But, I will say this, the Red Sox look more vulnerable than I expected. If they can fall off some, that would help.

Much like the undead they tend not to stay down.

[Sessh]

2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

There are literally no pieces on the active roster that will be part of the rebuilt team. They're all just band-aids / place holders for the the younger players. So I'm not sure I'd use the term "speeding up". 

I highly doubt that. If this team really needs an entire replacement of the current 25-man roster that all have to be both major league caliber and under 25, it's going to be another 15 years and that's just how long it will take management to know that they are doing things wrong. Either players are good or they're not. I don't care if some are over 25. It's going to take a lot longer than 3-4 years to rebuild this team with that approach. Age is just a number. Results on the field matters far more.. unless you're insinuating that players over 25 all suck? We should have zero veteran presence? Just a ridiculous statement.

I want guys on the team that can play. I don't care much if some are over 25 or even if some are in their 30's. Can they play or not? Do they help the team or not? It's not a competition to field the youngest team in the majors. The objective is to build a competitive team and win a championship. That's it.

The 2017 Houston Astros had several players over 30. Nori Aoki (35), Carlos Beltran (40), Tyler Clippard (32), Mike Fiers (32), Evan Gattis (30), Luke Gregerson (33), Yuli Gurriel (33), Will Harris (32), Francisco Liriano (33), Cameron Maybin (30), Brian McCann (33), Collin McHugh (30), Charlie Morton (33), Josh Reddick (30), Tony Sipp (33) and Justin Verlander (34).

Of those, these (12) were on the 25-man World Series roster: Evan Gattis, Brian McCann, Yuli Gurriel, Carlos Beltran, Cameron Maybin, Josh Reddick, Francisco Liriano, Luke Gregerson, Will Harris, Collin McHugh, Charlie Morton and Justin Verlander.

So, half of their WS roster were guys 30 and above.. and you want all guys 25 or under? You sure about that logic? You're trying to build the youngest team in the league. We're trying to build a champion. Big difference.

Also, Villar is an above average player even before tonight as others have pointed out to you. I never said one game made him anything. That was your strawman. Unless we make a deal for someone else, we need Villar next season. Throwing away an above average player when we don't even have anyone average to replace him with is extremely foolish.

[interloper]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So 37, 38, 39, 39 and 40?

Come on. This is intellectually dishonest. 

[Philip]

8 minutes ago, Sessh said:

I highly doubt that. If this team really needs an entire replacement of the current 25-man roster that all have to be both major league caliber and under 25, it's going to be another 15 years and that's just how long it will take management to know that they are doing things wrong. Either players are good or they're not. I don't care if some are over 25. It's going to take a lot longer than 3-4 years to rebuild this team with that approach. Age is just a number. Results on the field matters far more.. unless you're insinuating that players over 25 all suck? We should have zero veteran presence? Just a ridiculous statement.

I want guys on the team that can play. I don't care much if some are over 25 or even if some are in their 30's. Can they play or not? Do they help the team or not? It's not a competition to field the youngest team in the majors. The objective is to build a competitive team and win a championship. That's it.

The 2017 Houston Astros had several players over 30. Nori Aoki (35), Carlos Beltran (40), Tyler Clippard (32), Mike Fiers (32), Evan Gattis (30), Luke Gregerson (33), Yuli Gurriel (33), Will Harris (32), Francisco Liriano (33), Cameron Maybin (30), Brian McCann (33), Collin McHugh (30), Charlie Morton (33), Josh Reddick (30), Tony Sipp (33) and Justin Verlander (34).

Of those, these (12) were on the 25-man World Series roster: Evan Gattis, Brian McCann, Yuli Gurriel, Carlos Beltran, Cameron Maybin, Josh Reddick, Francisco Liriano, Luke Gregerson, Will Harris, Collin McHugh, Charlie Morton and Justin Verlander.

So, half of their WS roster were guys 30 and above.. and you want all guys 25 or under? You sure about that logic? You're trying to build the youngest team in the league. We're trying to build a champion. Big difference.

Also, Villar is an above average player even before tonight as others have pointed out to you. I never said one game made him anything. That was your strawman. Unless we make a deal for someone else, we need Villar next season. Throwing away an above average player when we don't even have anyone average to replace him with is extremely foolish.

I agree with you about the age thing. Regarding Villar, I suppose the only thing we can all agree on is that we can keep him until we find somebody better. He’s not terrible but he’s not a player for contending team and he’s not worth 7 million.