Despite speculation, Orioles not on the market to be moved or sold

[OFFNY]

21 minutes ago, NashLumber said:

 

Any opinion on Montville? Shaughnessy wasn’t alone in this opinion. I’m only familiar with Montville due to his Ted Williams bio. 

 

o

 

I have no opinion on him.

Frazee is an easy patsy/scapegoat because he owned the team, and he made the move. Ruth's behavior made it almost impossible to continue dealing with him (behavior that continued to be troublesome in his tenure with the Yankees, though they were more willing to put up with it due to his reaching reaching mythical status and putting up unprecedented numbers), and the record-breaking sum of $100,000 offered by the Yankees made it almost a no-brainer for the Red Sox at the time (although some Red Sox fans were furious when they heard of the trade, in spite of the surrounding circumstances.) If the Red Sox had not had the World Series drought that they had and/or if the Yankees had not continued with their dominance of baseball from 1921 through 1964, I suspect that these rumors/myths would either not exist, or would be mere footnotes. As I stated earlier, the real story with these types of things is often not as sexy and alluring as the lore/myth. We obviously cannot ask Frazee about all of the specifics of the situation because he is dead, but the facts surrounding the situation at that time tend to belie the financing of the play as the primary reason for Ruth's departure from Boston.

 

o

[NashLumber]

4 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

No opinion on him.

Frazee is an easy patsy/scapegoat because he owned the team, and he made the move. Ruth's behavior made it almost impossible to continue dealing with him (behavior that continued to be troublesome in his tenure with the Yankees, though they were more willing to put up with it due to his reaching reaching mythical status and putting up unprecedented numbers), and the $100,000 sum offered by the Yankees made it almost a no-brainer for the Red Sox at the time (although some Red Sox fans were furious when they heard of the trade, in spite of the surrounding circumstances.) If the Red Sox not had the World Series drought that they had and/or if the Yankees had not continued with their dominance of baseball from 1921 through 1964, I suspect that these rumors/myths would either not exist, or would be mere footnotes. As I stated earlier, the real story with these types of things is often not as sexy and alluring as the lore/myth.

 

o

Fair enough. I just don’t have the same gut reaction to the whole Babe Ruth story as you. 

And this whole exchange is because of my joke which fell flat regarding John Angelos’ wife and Nashville. It’s not been my best day. 

[scOtt]

10 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

Ah, the cycle of fake news being posted and the team having to waste brain cycles on dispelling a rumour based on terrible logic and hearsay. And then people rolling their eyes because the team is in a damned if you do ("of COURSE the team is going to say it's not relocating!") or don't ("WHY isn't the team dispelling this? IT MUST BE TRUE!").

Listen, giving any kind of attention to something founded on the son of the owner of the team having a house in a different state is just eye roll worthy.

Also, once again, screw Tennessee.

They are showing women Country singers like 5 times this year. Probably all of them from Nashville...

[scOtt]

7 hours ago, NashLumber said:

Apparently it was a 1919 play that was later adapted to music as No, No Nannette. 

 

“A popular myth holds that the show was financed by selling baseball's Boston Red Sox superstar Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees, resulting in the "Curse of the Bambino."^[1]However, it was My Lady Friends, rather than No, No, Nanette, that was directly financed by the Ruth sale.“

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No,_No,_Nanette?wprov=sfti1

“Neither the lore, nor the debunking of it, entirely tells the story. As Leigh Montville wrote in The Big Bam: The Life and Times of Babe Ruth, the production No, No, Nanette had originated as a non-musical stage play called My Lady Friends, which opened on Broadway in December 1919.^[12]That play had, indeed, been financed as a direct result of the Ruth deal.^[13]Various researchers, including Montville and Shaughnessy, have pointed out that Frazee had close ties to the Yankees owners, and that many of the player deals, as well as the mortgage deal for Fenway Park itself, had to do with financing his plays.^[12]”

 

Montville, Leigh (2006). The Big Bam: The Life and Times of Babe Ruth. Random House. pp. 161–164.

 

Shaughnessy 1990, p. 33

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Bambino?wprov=sfti1

 

 

 

7 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Dan Shaughnessy was/is very biased against Frazee. Of all the people interviewed in the HBO Curse of the Bambino documentary, he appeared to be one of the least credible because of that.

Ruth was traded for primarily the reasons pointed out in that documentary (his incorrigible behavior, such as leaving the team for a game or 2 to pick up money barnstorming, getting drunk in brothels and having to be retrieved from the streets by team associates the next morning, etc), not for the financing of either one of those plays.

 

o

Why can't it be both? To finance the play AND to get rid of Babe Ruth's antics at the same time. It's win-win.

[OFFNY]

19 minutes ago, scOtt said:

 

Why can't it be both? To finance the play AND to get rid of Babe Ruth's antics at the same time. It's win-win.

 

o

 

Frazee very well may have used a chunk of the money that he received from the sale of Babe Ruth to finance the play, but it is not likely that it was the primary reason for the sale/trade. Ruth's antics/behavioral problems were not new ....... when the Red Sox bottomed out in 1919 with a losing record (after having won 3 World Series titles in 4 years between 1915 and 1918), the time seemed ideal to unload their extremely talented-but-troublemaking star. And from everything that I have read and watched in documentaries on the subject, the funding of the play was more likely an occurrence after the fact ........ in other words, the funding of the play was probably not the primary reason for Frazee's deal with the Yankees, but rather a byproduct of the deal/trade.

 

o

[Roll Tide]

6 hours ago, scOtt said:

They are showing women Country singers like 5 times this year. Probably all of them from Nashville...

Scott Nashville is a musical town. Most people looking to make it as a singer, songwriter, or producer flock to either Nashville or LA. Nashville is diverse but there is plenty of country music concentration. 

So ts not surprising that the artist reside in Nashville and it's likely the same booking agent was used to book them all. I think you are looking for coincidences that are probably not relevant.

The fact that the Orioles are hosting country music events will make them no more or less popular in Nashville.

As I mentioned a few times, I spent 12 years of my life in the music industry. The time included trips to LA, NY, and more visits to Nashville than I can count on my hands.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[Frobby]

14 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Dan Shaughnessy was/is very biased against Frazee. Of all the people interviewed in the HBO Curse of the Bambino documentary, he appeared to be one of the least credible because of that.

Ruth was traded for primarily the reasons pointed out in that documentary (his incorrigible behavior, such as leaving the team for a game or 2 to pick up money barnstorming, getting drunk in brothels and having to be retrieved from the streets by team associates the next morning, etc), not for the financing of either one of those plays.

 

o

There’s a difference between saying Ruth was sold for the purpose of financing a play, and saying that the proceeds of the sale were used to finance a play.  The latter can be true without the former being true.    For me the key  information here is that My Lady Friends was a non-musical predecessor to No No Nanette.   So at least there is some basis for the No No Nanette myth, even if not strictly accurate.     

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

 

There’s a difference between saying that Ruth was sold for the purpose of financing a play, and saying that the proceeds of the sale were used to finance a play.The latter can be true without the former being true. For me, the key information here is that My Lady Friends was a non-musical predecessor to No No Nanette. So at least there is some basis for the No No Nanette myth, even if not strictly accurate.     

 

o

 

Yes.

 

o

8 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Frazee very well may have used a chunk of the money that he received from the sale of Babe Ruth to finance the play, but it is not likely that it was the primary reason for the sale/trade. Ruth's antics/behavioral problems were not new ....... when the Red Sox bottomed out in 1919 with a losing record (after having won 3 World Series titles in 4 years between 1915 and 1918), the time seemed ideal to unload their extremely talented-but-troublemaking star. And from everything that I have read and watched in documentaries on the subject, the funding of the play was more likely an occurrence after the fact ........ in other words, the funding of the play was probably not the primary reason for Frazee's deal with the Yankees, but rather a byproduct of the deal/trade.

 

o

 

[scOtt]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Scott Nashville is a musical town. Most people looking to make it as a singer, songwriter, or producer flock to either Nashville or LA. Nashville is diverse but there is plenty of country music concentration. 

So ts not surprising that the artist reside in Nashville and it's likely the same booking agent was used to book them all. I think you are looking for coincidences that are probably not relevant.

The fact that the Orioles are hosting country music events will make them no more or less popular in Nashville.

As I mentioned a few times, I spent 12 years of my life in the music industry. The time included trips to LA, NY, and more visits to Nashville than I can count on my hands.

Just my 2 cents!

 

I know all that. I was just trying to throw gas on the fire. Or gas on the dying embers...

 

 

I knew I shoulda used an emoji...

[Dark Helmet]

20 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Who cares what mayflower knew.

They are a business, and their business is moving items.

That would be like hating UPS for handling amazon prime packages.

 

Does his decision to not use Mayflower affect you? He has his reasoning for it. That's his choice.

[Dark Helmet]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2019/08/13/despite-the-rumors-orioles-will-almost-assuredly-remain-in-baltimore/amp/

Here's a pretty good article explaining the steps needed and why I move isn't likely.

[Obando]

So the fact that Baltimore is the Angelos family’s hometown and they have been staunch supporters and defenders of Baltimore since purchasing the team, both verbally and financially, isn’t reason enough to believe that they won’t move the team?  Other than the fact that John Angelos owns a home in Nashville, and his wife is a country music artist that’s based in Nashville, I just can’t see a move happening (not to mention it can’t happen without MLB approval anyway).  A sale however, is very believable and likely, in my opinion, but wouldn’t occur until Peter passes away for estate tax reasons.  And all things being relatively equal in terms of offers, I think the Angelos family will sell to a local buyer that is committed to keeping the team in Baltimore, rather than risk selling to a buyer with no ties to the Baltimore area who would be more inclined to move the team.

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I'm likely in the minority here but I think the Orioles could and would move under the right circumstances. If the MASN situation is resolved within the next year, that would open the door to Nashville and Rob Manfred would be powerless to stop it. I could easily see The Angelos Group getting ownership approval with the expectation of steady sell outs and legal clout against those who stand in the way.

Manfred and the other owners could block the Angelos brothers from officially taking over and/or block a move.

There is a reason only one team has moved in forty years (a team owned by MLB).

You think the other owners are looking at ticket sales when contemplating owners?

[GuidoSarducci]

I went to the As/Astros game in Oakland today,.   it was a great day (1 PM) game, a bit warm but not really hot, at least by my east coast standards.   The As are one game out from the wildcard, and trailed the Astros for the division lead by 7.5 games prior to today,  which with with a month and change left to play is by no means insurmountable lead.  

The reported attendance was 21,000 and change.   

Meanwhile, across town you have San Francisco Giants, who are totally out of the playoff race, and are drawing nearly 31,000 against the Nationals on a Wednesday night last week. 

[Dipper9]

On 8/17/2019 at 7:47 AM, Roll Tide said:

Scott Nashville is a musical town. Most people looking to make it as a singer, songwriter, or producer flock to either Nashville or LA. Nashville is diverse but there is plenty of country music concentration. 

So ts not surprising that the artist reside in Nashville and it's likely the same booking agent was used to book them all. I think you are looking for coincidences that are probably not relevant.

The fact that the Orioles are hosting country music events will make them no more or less popular in Nashville.

As I mentioned a few times, I spent 12 years of my life in the music industry. The time included trips to LA, NY, and more visits to Nashville than I can count on my hands.

Just my 2 cents!

 

Um...pretty sure Scott was joking.