The lineup I want to see in September

[interloper]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He had 107 strike outs in 308 at bats.  Does that sound like someone that needed a challenge?

Guy is a 2018 first round pick, if he isn't subject to "obtaining mastery" who is?

Again, judging whether or not Elias is blowing smoke based on a single data point among a sea of data points is my main issue. 

Also, maybe Elias and Co. don't see him as a prospect of much note. 

Also, maybe the lack of infield prospects makes them want to push him a little quicker than they'd like.

Also, you completely ignored my point about them having much better data to look at than we do.

Also, it's just Delmarva to Frederick.

Also, .360 OBP is positive. And has a .337 OBP in Frederick despite his struggles, also a positive.

Also, how long are you really going to hold a top pick at Delmarva.

Also, he showed significant improvement to his Delmarva stint in 2018. 

 

Gotta say man, I'm pretty comfortable with my argument here! 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Again, judging whether or not Elias is blowing smoke based on a single data point among a sea of data points is my main issue. 

Also, maybe Elias and Co. don't see him as a prospect of much note. 

Also, maybe the lack of infield prospects makes them want to push him a little quicker than they'd like.

Also, you completely ignored my point about them having much better data to look at than we do.

Also, it's just Delmarva to Frederick.

Also, .360 OBP is positive. And has a .337 OBP in Frederick despite his struggles, also a positive.

Also, how long are you really going to hold a top pick at Delmarva.

Also, he showed significant improvement to his Delmarva stint in 2018. 

 

Gotta say man, I'm pretty comfortable with my argument here! 

I'd call Diaz and Mountcastle additional data points.  The Hall-Grenier situation is just a lot more obvious.

Maybe they don't, however they never stated that "mastery of level" only applies to prospect of much note.

Than promote Hall, the one showing the higher level of mastery.

I mentioned the ridiculous K rate.  I don't think any data they have is going to trump that K rate.

In my eyes, irrelevant.  That's just excuse making.  Either you have a set of guidelines and you follow them or you don't.

For his age at that level?  I'm not impressed.

How long are you going to keep 15.5M bonus baby in AA?

He was still being clearly outperformed by Hall.

[eddie83]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd call Diaz and Mountcastle additional data points.  The Hall-Grenier situation is just a lot more obvious.

Maybe they don't, however they never stated that "mastery of level" only applies to prospect of much note.

Than promote Hall, the one showing the higher level of mastery.

I mentioned the ridiculous K rate.  I don't think any data they have is going to trump that K rate.

In my eyes, irrelevant.  That's just excuse making.  Either you have a set of guidelines and you follow them or you don't.

For his age at that level?  I'm not impressed.

How long are you going to keep 15.5M bonus baby in AA?

He was still being clearly outperformed by Hall.

All cases are equal? Grenier has to be judged faster than Hall. I think there is a difference promoting players at lower levels compared to upper levels.  

You can argue that Mountcastle and Diaz have earned promotions but both are going to be up at some point. Diaz was not as good at Bowie after the trade. He has been injured a good bit this year after a slow start. Plus once you get closer to Baltimore and start promoting players than you are pushing others out or down. What position is Ryan going to wind up playing?

[Ruzious]

21 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

By value, I mostly meant his value to the Orioles.  I'd love it if Nunez could be our starting third baseman when we are good again.

Off in the distance, I hear O's pitchers saying "Nooooooo.  Why do you hate us?"

Actually, I could see a platoon at 3B next season with Bannon playing against lefties (he crushes them) and... wait for it... Stevie Wilkerson against righties.  Believe it or not, Wilkerson has a .484 slugging percentage against righties.  So even though his .299 OBP is problematic, he's got a .783 OPS vs righties.  He's been putrid in his 96 at bats against lefties.         

Does seeing a Bannon/Wilkerson platoon at 3B next season mean I should see an eye doctor?  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

All cases are equal? Grenier has to be judged faster than Hall. I think there is a difference promoting players at lower levels compared to upper levels.  

You can argue that Mountcastle and Diaz have earned promotions but both are going to be up at some point. Diaz was not as good at Bowie after the trade. He has been injured a good bit this year after a slow start. Plus once you get closer to Baltimore and start promoting players than you are pushing others out or down. What position is Ryan going to wind up playing?

Bat.

True we have a number of other guys playing bat but I can think of one in particular that he can replace.

I don't get the he has to learn a defensive position argument.  What is there to lose with him learning defense at the major league level in 2019?  They have had no issue with Wilkerson learning a new position in the majors.  The prior regime did it multiple times.

[wildcard]

59 minutes ago, TINSTAAPP said:

Yeah, the handling of Diaz has really puzzled me. The guy put up a .841 OPS at AA last year, has a very good spring training, and then you have him repeat AA again? You can't really use the excuse that he was being blocked by anybody. They've given almost 500 PAs to Mason Williams this year. Also, Stewart was promoted in late May and Santander was promoted to the Orioles in early June. They could have at least moved up Diaz after those two were promoted to the big leagues. What's the point of having him accumulate over 800 PAs at AA?

I don't see Diaz being at AA as anything but a lack of performance on his part.

He came over to the O's in the deadline trade and hit for a 732 OPS at Bowie.  So the O's started him at the AA level again in 2019.  I have to think they expected to move up quickly but Diaz hit for a 651 OPS for 21 days and than gets injured.  He had a good June and July and then get injured again.

I would have to think he will start 2020 at AAA at age 23.   How fast he gets a promotion to the O's will probably be a function how well he performs.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Obviously mastery of the level, which is a nebulous term in the first place, isn't really the overriding criteria. 

Yes, and that's fine.  

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Either you have a set of guidelines and you follow them or you don't.

They're guidelines.  God didn't hand them to Moses on stone tablets.

[DrungoHazewood]

45 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Bat.

True we have a number of other guys playing bat but I can think of one in particular that he can replace.

I don't get the he has to learn a defensive position argument.  What is there to lose with him learning defense at the major league level in 2019?  They have had no issue with Wilkerson learning a new position in the majors.  The prior regime did it multiple times.

I'm a lot more concerned about him walking three times a month against AAA pitching than I am about his defensive struggles and eventual position.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

They're guidelines.  God didn't hand them to Moses on stone tablets.

You sent a standard you abide by the standard.  That way your employees know what is expected.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm a lot more concerned about him walking three times a month against AAA pitching than I am about his defensive struggles and eventual position.

Do you think more time at AAA is going to help?

Do you think a lightbulb went off in the last week or so because he had enough AAA reps?

I'm of the mindset that you need to be challenged to have substantial improvement.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yes, and that's fine.  

Then don't claim it is when defending them not promoting guys that appear ready.

[DrungoHazewood]

 

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think more time at AAA is going to help?

Do you think a lightbulb went off in the last week or so because he had enough AAA reps?

I'm of the mindset that you need to be challenged to have substantial improvement.

I don't think anything will help.  Unless he's OPSing 1.200 in the majors at 28 he's never going to walk 50 times in a season no matter what he works on, he currently walks less often than Daniel Cabrera did.

Sure, challenge him, move him up.  But there's no magic line, no specific goal or threshold that says it's right to call him up August 27th instead of June 17th or September 14th.

[interloper]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You sent a standard you abide by the standard.  That way your employees know what is expected.

I know I love my employers to be extremely rigid.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

I know I love my employers to be extremely rigid.

You like floating expectations?