More brilliant insight from Tim McCarver

[Chollie Eckman]

See, I disagree. PEDs probably had some effect, but we have no idea how much, who, what, or when. We don't have the slightest idea if pitchers using pretty much negated overall effect of the hitters using. PEDs might be first, but there's just as much chance they're #10.

I'd rank parks first, then bats (or maybe even vice-versa), then the others in some jumble.

I think that if they made a minimum weight for bats that was a few ounces lower than average for 1960 there would be an immediate and dramatic decrease in both offense and home runs.

Look at Bret Boone before and after. PEDs should be at the top of the list.

[DrungoHazewood]

Look at Bret Boone before and after. PEDs should be at the top of the list.

Look at Sandy Koufax before and after Dodger Stadium. I think parks are at the top of the list. Or imagine a guy like Shawn Green or Steve Finley swinging a thick-handled, 36- or 38-ounce bat. Equipment plays a very significant role, too.

[Chollie Eckman]

Look at Sandy Koufax before and after Dodger Stadium. I think parks are at the top of the list. Or imagine a guy like Shawn Green or Steve Finley swinging a thick-handled, 36- or 38-ounce bat. Equipment plays a very significant role, too.

You can't mean Memorial Coliseum can you? 252' down the LF line? There's nothing like that in baseball today.

Some of my personal favorites are Robison (with the roller coaster in left) and League Park circa 1910. Those would have been fun to see a game at.

[TGO]

You can't mean Memorial Coliseum can you? 252' down the LF line? There's nothing like that in baseball today.

Some of my personal favorites are Robison (with the roller coaster in left) and League Park circa 1910. Those would have been fun to see a game at.

Dodger Stadium opened in 1962. Look at the jump Koufax's numbers took in 1962 going from LA Coliseum to Dodger Stadium:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/koufasa01.shtml

Maybe coincidence, maybe not (that was his age 26 year and it took him a few years to hone his stuff and learn how to pitch).

[Chollie Eckman]

Dodger Stadium opened in 1962. Look at the jump Koufax's numbers took in 1962 going from LA Coliseum to Dodger Stadium:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/koufasa01.shtml

Maybe coincidence, maybe not (that was his age 26 year and it took him a few years to hone his stuff and learn how to pitch).

Memorial Coliseum was not very friendly to leftys.

Like I said, there is nothing like that park in MLB now. Mile High and Coors you could use as an example for a few years but I don't recall any Rockies hitting 50 homers.

Here's a question for ya - "What - other than steroids - can you attribute Bonds hitting more home runs after the age of 33 than Joe DiMaggio hit in his whole career?"

[Mark Carver]

Memorial Coliseum was not very friendly to leftys.

Like I said, there is nothing like that park in MLB now. Mile High and Coors you could use as an example for a few years but I don't recall any Rockies hitting 50 homers.

Here's a question for ya - "What - other than steroids - can you attribute Bonds hitting more home runs after the age of 32 than Joe DiMaggio hit in his whole career?"

Well, first of all, you have to have the players that are capable to hit a HR and the Rockies are not loaded with the talent to hit home runs.

Todd Helton has played his entire career with the Rockies.

Home - 3309 PA, 180 HR, 1 HR every 18.38 PA

Away - 3143 PA, 114 HR, 1 HR every 27.51 PA

Matt Holliday a young and up and comer so far has played his entire career with the Rockies -

Home - 1024 PA, 54 HR, 1 HR every 18.96 PA

Away - 996 PA, 28 HR, 1 HR every 35.57 PA

So why does these 2 guys hit more HRs at home than on the road? Home cooking? I don't think so...

[TGO]

Memorial Coliseum was not very friendly to leftys.

Like I said, there is nothing like that park in MLB now. Mile High and Coors you could use as an example for a few years but I don't recall any Rockies hitting 50 homers.

Here's a question for ya - "What - other than steroids - can you attribute Bonds hitting more home runs after the age of 33 than Joe DiMaggio hit in his whole career?"

Single season HR leaders for the Rox:

1. Todd Helton  49  2001  Larry Walker  49  1997 3. Andres Galarraga  47  1996 4. Vinny Castilla  46  1998 5. Todd Helton  42  2000 6. Andres Galarraga  41  1997 7. Dante Bichette  40  1995  Ellis Burks  40  1996  Vinny Castilla  40  1996  Vinny Castilla  40  1997 

Okay, no one hit 50, but 40 is still a lot of homers. In over 60 years the Orioles have FOUR 40-HR seasons. The Rockies have ten in around 15 years of play.

[Chollie Eckman]

Single season HR leaders for the Rox:

1. Todd Helton  49  2001  Larry Walker  49  1997 3. Andres Galarraga  47  1996 4. Vinny Castilla  46  1998 5. Todd Helton  42  2000 6. Andres Galarraga  41  1997 7. Dante Bichette  40  1995  Ellis Burks  40  1996  Vinny Castilla  40  1996  Vinny Castilla  40  1997 

Okay, no one hit 50, but 40 is still a lot of homers. In over 60 years the Orioles have FOUR 40-HR seasons. The Rockies have ten in around 15 years of play.

Look at what years we're talking about. '96-'01. Pretty juicy ball wouldn't you think.

Am I missing something here or are you guys defending Bonds. Sure sounds that way.

[DrungoHazewood]

Here's a question for ya - "What - other than steroids - can you attribute Bonds hitting more home runs after the age of 33 than Joe DiMaggio hit in his whole career?"

Well, this probably isn't what you meant, but the first thing that popped into my head was DiMaggio played in Yankee Stadium when it was 461 to LC, he missed a big chunk of his prime to WWII, and he retired the minute he started to decline because he was overly concerned with his image. Otherwise he'd probably have hit 500 homers.

[Chollie Eckman]

Well, first of all, you have to have the players that are capable to hit a HR and the Rockies are not loaded with the talent to hit home runs.

Todd Helton has played his entire career with the Rockies.

Home - 3309 PA, 180 HR, 1 HR every 18.38 PA

Away - 3143 PA, 114 HR, 1 HR every 27.51 PA

Matt Holliday a young and up and comer so far has played his entire career with the Rockies -

Home - 1024 PA, 54 HR, 1 HR every 18.96 PA

Away - 996 PA, 28 HR, 1 HR every 35.57 PA

So why does these 2 guys hit more HRs at home than on the road? Home cooking? I don't think so...

What are you talking about?

[DrungoHazewood]

Look at what years we're talking about. '96-'01. Pretty juicy ball wouldn't you think.

Am I missing something here or are you guys defending Bonds. Sure sounds that way.

It's hard to defend Bonds, but it's easy to not join the lynch mob. There are lots of reasons for the home run explosion, and lots to celebrate about his career even if you discount his late career surge. If he'd retired in 1998 he'd be a first-ballot HOFer.

[Chollie Eckman]

Well, this probably isn't what you meant, but the first thing that popped into my head was DiMaggio played in Yankee Stadium when it was 461 to LC, he missed a big chunk of his prime to WWII, and he retired the minute he started to decline because he was overly concerned with his image. Otherwise he'd probably have hit 500 homers.

Yeah, let Ted Williams play an uninterrupted career at Yankee Stadium and what would the HR record be?

[DrungoHazewood]

What are you talking about?

I think he's just providing some evidence that Coors, at least pre-humidor and excepting some short-term transitional stadiums, is the most extreme home run and runs scored park in baseball history.

[TGO]

Look at what years we're talking about. '96-'01. Pretty juicy ball wouldn't you think.

Am I missing something here or are you guys defending Bonds. Sure sounds that way.

I have mentioned Barry Bonds exactly zero times in this thread, and I only entered the discussion to support Drungo's point about Dodger Stadium and Sandy Koufax because I thought there was some confusion.

[Chollie Eckman]

It's hard to defend Bonds, but it's easy to not join the lynch mob. There are lots of reasons for the home run explosion, and lots to celebrate about his career even if you discount his late career surge. If he'd retired in 1998 he'd be a first-ballot HOFer.

It's hard to forgive the contempt he has for just about everyone and everything. Especially the contempt he has for the game that gave him fame and great fortune.

I got a problem with that.