Middle Infield, Addison Russell and the Redemption Song

[7Mo]

4 minutes ago, atomic said:

You don't think the Astro's have had issues because of picking up a domestic abuser?  They are currently being investigate by MLB for issues related to the whole ordeal.   And a VP was fired. 

The MLB investigation is because they picked up Osuna?

[Enjoy Terror]

4 minutes ago, theocean said:

if the O's sign Russell, they're going to have the same problem the Ravens had with Ray Rice.

I disagree with this for a couple reasons:

1) No video

2) Not famous

I would personally disagree with the decision to hire Russell but the situations are not comparable.

[atomic]

17 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

The MLB investigation is because they picked up Osuna?

Part of it is how they handled the press in that situation and other situations.  If they hadn't picked up Osuna the VP would have never made those comments to the reporter.  The team would have never issued that press release stating the other reporter was a liar if Osuna wasn't picked up.   MLB is investigating how they handled the whole Osuna locker room incident. 

[LookinUp]

I agree with @Luke-OH that Villar is likely over-rated here compared to what other teams think, likely because of better defensive metrics. I saw Villar as a bad defender at multiple positions, lol. I don't think we got much worse, if at all, in 2020 by letting him go. I'm supportive of that move, particularly in light of us owing ~$70 million as part of the MASN settlement. 

I agree with @Tony-OH that there are many hypocrites re: mistakes being made and people being given second chances. Everyone's in favor generally, but not on their own team. I disagree with that.

I agree with many that I don't want to root for Russell.

In the end, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze if the plan is to sign and flip Russell. Who is going to trade something actually useful for a domestic abuser unless he's an absolute stud? What are the chances Russell is a stud this year, based on his recent performance? You get the PR hit the second you get him. You're betting on him being great in that case, so hard pass.

If the plan is to give him a chance to be our SS of the future, it's a different consideration. The PR hit would subside over time if he's a likable person who produces. I'd be meh on that.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

Just want to be clear that I'm not booing or attacking him and I do wish him the best in improving himself and being a better person, I'd just prefer to cheer for someone else. 

I'm not lumping you in with those folks. I understand your point of view fully. If all things were the same and I had a choice between a model citizen and Russell, I'd go with the model citizen as well, but I just don't feel like professionally burying a guy when it appears he's remorseful and has taken actions to improve.

[NCRaven]

52 minutes ago, atomic said:

You don't think the Astro's have had issues because of picking up a domestic abuser?  They are currently being investigate by MLB for issues related to the whole ordeal.   And a VP was fired. 

I have no opinion on Russell and have made no comments on it at all.  This comment, however, is wrong.  The official was fired for his own actions.  He was an ass.  It has nothing to do with their decision to bring in a specific player and everything to do with the officials stupid response to female members of the media.

[weams]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm not lumping you in with those folks. I understand your point of view fully. If all things were the same and I had a choice between a model citizen and Russell, I'd go with the model citizen as well, but I just don't feel like professionally burying a guy when it appears he's remorseful and has taken actions to improve.

As Tony stated,, I might be close to hypocrisy on this as I've had my share of bad days. Never those types of days, but ones where I needed to apologize and make amends.  i don't hate the kid. I'm not for banning him for life. I'd just allow his past to cloud whether I want to spend millions of dollars on him. Maybe he doesn't get to make the money he would have had he not been suspended for abuse. 

My apologies here for airing my personal feelings on that particular type of offense. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Wow! 30 pages on Villar?   Great posts by Tony on Russell.  The only reason to get Russell is if you get him cheap and then flip him later.  Elias stole agenda at this point is to cut payroll and establish an infrastructure that will create a sustainable talent pipeline flowing into the system. He's doing what he was hired to do.  29 GM's did not collude against the Orioles.  There was no market.

This is the real key in all of this. If the Orioles want to be focused solely on achieving their strategic goals, and they feel Russell can help do that, then I'm fine with that. 

If we are going to be ok with the organization giving away good players because of money, then we should be fine with acquiring a player who could help meet those strategic goals whether that by him developing back into a player who can help them or by flipping him for someone who can.

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I have no opinion on Russell and have made no comments on it at all.  This comment, however, is wrong.  The official was fired for his own actions.  He was an ass.  It has nothing to do with their decision to bring in a specific player and everything to do with the officials stupid response to female members of the media.

He would not have made those comments if Osuna was not on board. Those female members of the media would not have been chastising the team for bringing on Osuna if he were not on the team. Sure he was an ass.   But the pressure brought against the team was because of bringing on Osuna.  

[MurphDogg]

17 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm not lumping you in with those folks. I understand your point of view fully. If all things were the same and I had a choice between a model citizen and Russell, I'd go with the model citizen as well, but I just don't feel like professionally burying a guy when it appears he's remorseful and has taken actions to improve.

You have mentioned this several times, do you have evidence that he's remorseful and has taken actions to improve? As far as I have seen, after denying the claims against him he issued a standard apology that was no doubt required by either the team or the league for him to be welcomed back into the fold. If there are concrete steps that he has taken to improve, I am not aware of them and would certainly like to be if he has taken any such steps.

If he wanted to be a leader in curbing domestic violence, he certainly has the platform to do so, I didn't see him mention the issue last season other than complaining that he was still being booed by some Cubs fans. Curious if I missed anything.

[7Mo]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm not lumping you in with those folks. I understand your point of view fully. If all things were the same and I had a choice between a model citizen and Russell, I'd go with the model citizen as well, but I just don't feel like professionally burying a guy when it appears he's remorseful and has taken actions to improve.

I hope I'm not one of "those folks" but I also hope it's ok to voice an opinion that others may disagree with.

I hope Russell gets another opportunity and does well. I don't know what he did or didn't do. But given that we can't sign/claim everyone, he wouldn't be my choice. 

[Tony-OH]

58 minutes ago, theocean said:

Major League Baseball is an entertainment product. People don't want to root for someone who is connected to beating up their wife. Like atomic said, domestic violence is a sensitive issue because so many people have been impacted by it - and it leaves scars physically and emotionally.

For too long, domestic violence was swept under the rug and not given the seriousness it deserves. For years, men who beat up women have been protected by the typical takes we always hear: "we don't know all the facts" or "women exaggerate" or "what did she do to start it." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are finally taking a stand against it - and if the O's sign Russell, they're going to have the same problem the Ravens had with Ray Rice.

I hope Russell learns from his mistakes and moves on from here. But, he can do it outside a baseball diamond. No one is taking away his right to make a living. He's 25 years old and can find work somewhere else like the rest of the people in the world. He already got a second chance from the Cubs anyway.

 

While Domestic violence should never be tolerated, the things you just said are absolutely true, not ridiculous. That's the issue. It's not a black or white issue because there are countless tales of woman who have done just what you said and ruined guys lives by their lies and exaggeration. There are men who spent years in jail only to have their accusers eventually admit they lied. You can't just automatically believe every accusation (not talking just the Russell situation here).

It's a tough situation because no one want to sweep any accusation under the rug, and any claims of physical abuse should be investigated thoroughly, but we live in a day and age where electronic media allows people to quickly, and thoroughly accuse others without a shred of evidence while the media picks and choose the facts to report.

Now you can have any feelings you want towards a person, but the fact you believe a 26-year old man should not be allowed to play professional baseball over an incident he apologized for and has taken constructive counseling to better himself says more about you then him in my opinion. 

There are so many people quick to judge others, yet I'm pretty sure they would not want to be held to the same standards. 

And BTW, the Cubs did not non-tender him because of this, they non-tendered him because he was going to be too expensive for his role. It was a smart financial decision.

 

 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, jerios55 said:

It certainly wouldn't make me think it wouldn't happen again.  When you can blame someone else it's easier to do it again.  Spouses/kids will test your patience, happens to us all.  But abuse doesn't happen across the board.  That's because many have control of themselves and know it is within them to maintain control. 

I haven't followed this story much, so I can't speak for Russell.  I could very much understand why people would boo him and not want to root for him if he blames others for such things.  Those 2 quotes are fairly damning and lack any level of remorse.

Huh? See how easy it is to take someone's post and make it sound like those were his words. Here's his actual words,

“I’m accountable for my past actions. I am not proud of the person I was.”

“Without getting into details or specifics, I just want to own that what I did was wrong and inexcusable,” Addison said at the time. “And I’m sorry. Sorry for the hurt and pain I put Melisa through.”

[atomic]

I am not sure what they hypocrisy comments come from.  My former boss once told me we couldn't hire a potential employee because the background check determined that the guy had gotten into a fight in Ocean City 20 years ago.  She told the guy and he said he was drunk and he was in college at the time but she told it there was nothing she could do as it was company policy as the arrest was on his criminal report..  Even as current employees they check our credit records periodically and our of course our criminal records to see if anything new comes up.  Even If I just became overly in-debt I would lose my job.  

 

 

 

[Tony-OH]

16 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I have no opinion on Russell and have made no comments on it at all.  This comment, however, is wrong.  The official was fired for his own actions.  He was an ass.  It has nothing to do with their decision to bring in a specific player and everything to do with the officials stupid response to female members of the media.

Absolutely. What that knucklehead did was to basically say, "Man, I'm sooooooo happy with have a previous female abuser on our team" to female reporters. That's just ridiculous and he deserved to be fired.