Bundy traded to Angels for Isaac Mattson, Kyle Bradish, Zach Peek, and Kyle Brnovich

[Frobby]

37 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

This is the kind of post that tips off conflict. Its a discussion board and @weams ant the other mods have asked that we tone things down.

The guy has 12.000 posts so it should be obvious that he's passionate about the Orioles and just didn't like the move.

It is kind of like if your girlfriend left you after cheating on you. Now she is with a second guy.  She is gone now what difference does it make who she is sleeping with.

For me it’s more like this: your wife (not girlfriend) who you still love passionately after many ups and downs, has told you she needs to go away for a long while and make some changes to regain the passion for you she once had, and it’s the only way she can do it.    Your relationship has been at a low point lately, but you still love her, and you know she’s right that she needs to make some big changes.   She promises she’ll be back better than ever, and you’re sure she’s sincere, but you know it might not happen.     Then she walks out the door.    

You can wait, or not.  
 

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

]QUOTE=atomic]It is kind of like if your girlfriend left you after cheating on you. Now she is with a second guy.  She is gone now what difference does it make who she is sleeping with. [/QUOTE]

For me it’s more like this: your wife (not girlfriend) who you still love passionately after many ups and downs, has told you she needs to go away for a long while and make some changes to regain the passion for you she once had, and it’s the only way she can do it.    Your relationship has been at a low point lately, but you still love her, and you know she’s right that she needs to make some big changes.   She promises she’ll be back better than ever, and you’re sure she’s sincere, but you know it might not happen.     Then she walks out the door.    

You can wait, or not.  
 

The say absence makes the heart grow fond. But there is als the possibility that she meets someone else in that period regardless of her sincerity.

In @atomic's I doubt he finds another team.

As a side note, If the Orioles which I don't see happening relocated to Tennessee, I would renounce my fandom and never bother with baseball again.

As a fan, you can choose to blame the ownership group. However, I blame MLB and the other owners. They muscled the Expos in the Orioles TV market and really close proximity geographically.

[sportsfan8703]

11 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Bradish

Peek (highest ceiling, but we don’t know how he’ll handle a pro workload)

Brnovich

Mattson

 

Lucas

Peek and Bradish, same tier for me, definite top 30, probably around high teens to mid 20s.

Brnovich and Mattson, maybe 26-30 range, maybe off the 30. Lucas, somewhere in the group that just missed, similar to Hammer who I mentioned in the Beyond the 30.

Thanks. 

I like that we targeted four top 30ish types rather than getting just one top 5 type back. 

[Frobby]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

As a side note, If the Orioles which I don't see happening relocated to Tennessee, I would renounce my fandom and never bother with baseball again.

I’d switch over to the Nats, I expect, but it would never be the same.    

I could not disagree more about blaming this on MLB or the Nats.   The O’s sucked for 7 years before the Nats arrrived.   The O’s have not been well run, and Angelos is the main reason for that.    The fish rots from the head.
 

[sportsfan8703]

18 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I don't think Elias cares about the "Face of the Franchise" and I can't imagine keeping Mancini based on his age, cost (arbitration starting next year), and the fact that we probably wont be ready to compete in 2022/2023 (Age 31/32).

Yeah I agree.  I think Mancini is poised to have two big seasons offensively, but that matters little to us long term. It’s just a matter of getting some type of fair value for him.  

Trezza does shed some insight that I didn’t know before in pointing out that the Phillies, Yankees, and other were in on Givens at the deadline. 

Is the reliever market shallow or is Trezza off there?

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d switch over to the Nats, I expect, but it would never be the same.    

I could not disagree more about blaming this on MLB or the Nats.   The O’s sucked for 7 years before the Nats arrrived.   The O’s have not been well run, and Angelos is the main reason for that.    The fish rots from the head.
 

I wouldn't ever!

I blame MLB....I acknowledge Angelos being a bad owner. My thoughts on Peter are well know OH Lore! 

But MLB forced the Expos into D.C. And turned a large market team into 2 mid market teams or 1 mid and 1 small depending on who you talk to. Obviously there were other options like Nashville which would have done no major damage to any othe team.

I do blame Angelos for not fighting it harder in federal court. Which could've delayed the process and forced MLB to consider other locations. I think he sold  out by the golden parachute deal he received that included MASN and the selling price guarantees. 

Obviously the MASN thing didn't turn out the way he had anticipated and has been a lot of aggravation for the Orioles, Baseball, and the fans.

[Roll Tide]

9 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Yeah I agree.  I think Mancini is poised to have two big seasons offensively, but that matters little to us long term. It’s just a matter of getting some type of fair value for him.  

Trezza does shed some insight that I didn’t know before in pointing out that the Phillies, Yankees, and other were in on Givens at the deadline. 

Is the reliever market shallow or is Trezza off there?

Obviously he didn't receive any offers that were worth at least Easton? Otherwise in your mind he would've made the deal right?

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Obviously he didn't receive any offers that were worth at least Easton? Otherwise in your mind he would've made the deal right?

Givens and “Superstar Villar” are two different situations though. 

Take any one player out of the Bundy deal, and I’d be happy with that as a return for Givens. 

[VaBird1]

22 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d switch over to the Nats, I expect, but it would never be the same.    

I could not disagree more about blaming this on MLB or the Nats.   The O’s sucked for 7 years before the Nats arrrived.   The O’s have not been well run, and Angelos is the main reason for that.    The fish rots from the head.
 

Can’t stomach the Nationals.  I would probably go Braves for a few years before not watching MLB at all.

[weams]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

Bradish

Peek (highest ceiling, but we don’t know how he’ll handle a pro workload)

Brnovich

Mattson

 

Lucas

Peek and Bradish, same tier for me, definite top 30, probably around high teens to mid 20s.

Brnovich and Mattson, maybe 26-30 range, maybe off the 30. Lucas, somewhere in the group that just missed, similar to Hammer who I mentioned in the Beyond the 30.

Hammer, Dan Hammer. 

[weams]

1 hour ago, VaBird1 said:

Can’t stomach the Nationals.  I would probably go Braves for a few years before not watching MLB at all.

When I was a wee one, before our move and the 1964 collapse, we watched Johnny Callison and the Phillies. 

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’d switch over to the Nats, I expect, but it would never be the same.    

I could not disagree more about blaming this on MLB or the Nats.   The O’s sucked for 7 years before the Nats arrrived.   The O’s have not been well run, and Angelos is the main reason for that.    The fish rots from the head.
 

Just something else that I've thought of while thinking about this subject. If the Orioles did move to Nashville IMO it would be a clear sign and failure on the part of MLB baseball. At the cost of switching another major sports franchise from Baltimore to Washington. In case its not clear what I'm talking about the Baltimore Bullets/Washington Bullets/Wizards.

 

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Givens and “Superstar Villar” are two different situations though. 

Take any one player out of the Bundy deal, and I’d be happy with that as a return for Givens. 

I would be hoping for a 2-3 for Givens. If they need to keep him until the deadline and then deal him fine. I'm sure we can afford it.

Also adding Superstar to the front of Villar is just stoking the fire that the mods are hoping to let burn out.

 

[Going Underground]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

I wouldn't ever!

I blame MLB....I acknowledge Angelos being a bad owner. My thoughts on Peter are well know OH Lore! 

But MLB forced the Expos into D.C. And turned a large market team into 2 mid market teams or 1 mid and 1 small depending on who you talk to. Obviously there were other options like Nashville which would have done no major damage to any othe team.

I do blame Angelos for not fighting it harder in federal court. Which could've delayed the process and forced MLB to consider other locations. I think he sold  out by the golden parachute deal he received that included MASN and the selling price guarantees. 

Obviously the MASN thing didn't turn out the way he had anticipated and has been a lot of aggravation for the Orioles, Baseball, and the fans.

And one could argue that MASN deal made the Orioles more profitable then if the Nationals were not here. Orioles basically control two regional networks or at least most of the network.

[Roll Tide]

28 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

And one could argue that MASN deal made the Orioles more profitable then if the Nationals were not here. Orioles basically control two regional networks or at least most of the network.

Nobody mentions the 500,000 dip in attendance in 2005 and Looking back at the previous three years despite finishing 4 out of 5 in the division they drew 2.5 million fans. We never reached 2.5 million between 2012-2016 despite a division, 2 2nds, and a 3rd place finish. The last time the Orioles were competitive enough to get into the playoffs they drew 3.6 & 3.7 in 1996 and 1997 respectively.

So not counting the 60 million +/- that they have to pay the Nationals, one could reasonably argue the impact was 500,000 fans per year in attendance.

 

I'm sure someone will tell me that this is flawed math ... and even acknowledging that MLB attendance has been declining. I'd say  the 500,000 number impact is probably fair.

At an average of $100 per fan to include tickets, Orioles controlled parking, and concessions. Thats $50 Million in revenue! Add to that the $60 million in broadcast money to the Nationals and its pretty obvious what the move did to our franchise,

$110 Million per year out of Orioles resources and into the Nationals revenue