I'm glad Elias called this out

[interloper]

Quote

“I think people understand it. We are in a situation and I’m in a situation entering the organization at the end of 2018 where we come into the organization, the major league team has been effectively broken apart at that point, hit a wall after a really nice competitive run, a competitive window that had been extended - probably overextended, arguably. The organization did everything they could to keep that window open. There were a lot of resources, both financially and in terms of draft picks and so forth, and trades that were applied toward that window, and the window is shut.

“You look at the construction of the major league roster at the end of ‘18, the farm system, the talent base, the infrastructure in the organization, specifically internationally, and a little bit of the front office and analytics platforms, and there was a lot to do. There was nothing we could have done strategically to flip a switch and get us to where we need to go and where we want to be and where we want to remain.

“One pathway to doing this, and in my estimation the only one and the quickest one, is to go about this process of fortifying our minor league pipeline, improving our internal capabilities, investing in the infrastructure of the organization. And this is what it looks like.”

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/elias-on-rebuild-process-this-is-what-it-looks-like.html

"Overextended". I'm really glad he came out and said this, because it's exactly what happened.

We all sat on this message board knowing the O's needed to break it down a year earlier than they did. Either that or they should have paid Manny and Britton and traded some guys and retooled. Instead they did neither, they added bad contracts onto a team for a one-year hail Mary at the playoffs. Why sign Cobb to 4 years when you knew you were going to let Manny, Schoop, Jones, and Britton go? The veterans were at the end of their contracts and the return was going to be low for any trades. Buck was losing his pull in the clubhouse and years of trading from the farm to extend the window meant nobody was really on the way to help. The decently savvy Duquette method of power bats and power bullpen arms had run its course but they tried to overextend it at the clear detriment of the organization. 

It's just nice to hear the GM recognize and call out that fact because it was obvious to us fans at the time. Elias trusts that we're smart enough to get it and he's giving it to us straight here. The organization was essentially in tatters from front office down to the farm system. We did great to get to the playoffs, but I don't think the franchise knew how to handle things when the window started to close. 

[sportsfan8703]

29 minutes ago, interloper said:

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/elias-on-rebuild-process-this-is-what-it-looks-like.html

"Overextended". I'm really glad he came out and said this, because it's exactly what happened.

We all sat on this message board knowing the O's needed to break it down a year earlier than they did. Either that or they should have paid Manny and Britton and traded some guys and retooled. Instead they did neither, they added bad contracts onto a team for a one-year hail Mary at the playoffs. Why sign Cobb to 4 years when you knew you were going to let Manny, Schoop, Jones, and Britton go? The veterans were at the end of their contracts and the return was going to be low for any trades. Buck was losing his pull in the clubhouse and years of trading from the farm to extend the window meant nobody was really on the way to help. The decently savvy Duquette method of power bats and power bullpen arms had run its course but they tried to overextend it at the clear detriment of the organization. 

It's just nice to hear the GM recognize and call out that fact because it was obvious to us fans at the time. Elias trusts that we're smart enough to get it and he's giving it to us straight here. The organization was essentially in tatters from front office down to the farm system. We did great to get to the playoffs, but I don't think the franchise knew how to handle things when the window started to close. 

We were probably "overextended" in 2016, but that season was fun.  I'd say most teams usually tear down a season too late, rather than a season too early.  

[interloper]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

We were probably "overextended" in 2016, but that season was fun.  I'd say most teams usually tear down a season too late, rather than a season too early.  

Yeahhh, but I mean. They both over-extended AND failed to pay their actually good young players. AND traded a bunch of prospects. 

Don't get me wrong, I had a blast. But it could definitely have been thought out better. It was like they didn't see it coming, but it was plain as day where things were headed. They could have mitigated it by spending money on their own players and taking a year or two to retool. 

[oriole]

I agree it was over extended but at the same time, as a fan base we went through a grueling decade prior to that window and any chance at continued good fortunes had to at least be attempted. I think the only way to have any chance at selling a true rebuild to this fan base would be to hit rock bottom. And that is exactly what happened. 

[Frobby]

I think Elias did a good job of portraying the situation realistically without throwing prior management under the bus.    

[interloper]

Just now, oriole said:

I agree it was over extended but at the same time, as a fan base we went through a grueling decade prior to that window and any chance at continued good fortunes had to at least be attempted. I think the only way to have any chance at selling a true rebuild to this fan base would be to hit rock bottom. And that is exactly what happened. 

For sure. I argue that a full rebuild wouldn't have been necessary had they planned better, is all. That said, I think it's a blessing in disguise because I'm not sure the other areas of the infrastructure get addressed without doing a full rebuild.

[oriole]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

For sure. I argue that a full rebuild wouldn't have been necessary had they planned better, is all. That said, I think it's a blessing in disguise because I'm not sure the other areas of the infrastructure get addressed without doing a full rebuild.

Oh yeah...things could have gone a lot different if Davis wasn’t signed or Britton was traded at his peak. Instead they made dumb decisions like signing Trumbo and letting Cruz walk. It seems so clear now in retrospect but to be honest, it seemed clear when the decisions were being made too. 

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

48 minutes ago, interloper said:

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/elias-on-rebuild-process-this-is-what-it-looks-like.html

"Overextended". I'm really glad he came out and said this, because it's exactly what happened.

We all sat on this message board knowing the O's needed to break it down a year earlier than they did. Either that or they should have paid Manny and Britton and traded some guys and retooled. Instead they did neither, they added bad contracts onto a team for a one-year hail Mary at the playoffs. Why sign Cobb to 4 years when you knew you were going to let Manny, Schoop, Jones, and Britton go? The veterans were at the end of their contracts and the return was going to be low for any trades. Buck was losing his pull in the clubhouse and years of trading from the farm to extend the window meant nobody was really on the way to help. The decently savvy Duquette method of power bats and power bullpen arms had run its course but they tried to overextend it at the clear detriment of the organization. 

It's just nice to hear the GM recognize and call out that fact because it was obvious to us fans at the time. Elias trusts that we're smart enough to get it and he's giving it to us straight here. The organization was essentially in tatters from front office down to the farm system. We did great to get to the playoffs, but I don't think the franchise knew how to handle things when the window started to close. 

"Overextended" is a great word to describe it. Resigning O'Day, Trumbo, and most importantly - Davis, were all just absolute wastes of resources. They really were similar to the Phillies when they tried to keep that World Series core together for two seasons too long.

[weams]

53 minutes ago, interloper said:

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/elias-on-rebuild-process-this-is-what-it-looks-like.html

"Overextended". I'm really glad he came out and said this, because it's exactly what happened.

We all sat on this message board knowing the O's needed to break it down a year earlier than they did. Either that or they should have paid Manny and Britton and traded some guys and retooled. Instead they did neither, they added bad contracts onto a team for a one-year hail Mary at the playoffs. Why sign Cobb to 4 years when you knew you were going to let Manny, Schoop, Jones, and Britton go? The veterans were at the end of their contracts and the return was going to be low for any trades. Buck was losing his pull in the clubhouse and years of trading from the farm to extend the window meant nobody was really on the way to help. The decently savvy Duquette method of power bats and power bullpen arms had run its course but they tried to overextend it at the clear detriment of the organization. 

It's just nice to hear the GM recognize and call out that fact because it was obvious to us fans at the time. Elias trusts that we're smart enough to get it and he's giving it to us straight here. The organization was essentially in tatters from front office down to the farm system. We did great to get to the playoffs, but I don't think the franchise knew how to handle things when the window started to close. 

Sounds like maybe you still don't get it.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, weams said:

Sounds like maybe you still don't get it.

Can you use more words so we can have a discussion instead of just being flippant? I don't really know what point you're making here exactly and therefore I run the risk of misinterpreting you and us having an argument. Communication matters.

[atomic]

Just excuses IMHO.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

Just excuses IMHO.

Your opinion in neither humble nor correct.

[weams]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

Can you use more words so we can have a discussion instead of just being flippant? I don't really know what point you're making here exactly and therefore I run the risk of misinterpreting you and us having an argument. Communication matters.

Signing Manny and Britton and other moves would not have fixed the problems Elias identified in his statement. Elias would have traded them both. 

[weams]

6 minutes ago, interloper said:

Can you use more words so we can have a discussion instead of just being flippant? I don't really know what point you're making here exactly and therefore I run the risk of misinterpreting you and us having an argument. Communication matters.

And other than that insert, I agreed with your take. 

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

Just excuses IMHO.

Excuses for what? When you look at this team, what would you have done differently?

 

Do you think signing some $3-5 million players will even get the team close to New York? This is absolutely the most dreadful team in the league... they're not going anywhere with mediocre signings.