Poll: what do you think of the Astros’ punishment?

[weams]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Designing a system for picking up catchers signs is a lot different than coming up with using a monitor and electronic system to cheat.  This part could have simply been to help a baserunner on 2B decide the catchers signs.   The smoking gun is who suggested using the monitor to do it.

Or, even if they used a monitor to decode the signs, that information could have only been used to inform the players how to pick up the signs when they were on 2B.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/astros/2020/02/07/houston-astros-sign-stealing-scheme-codebreaker/4697247002/

Agreed. Just because they both had cutesie names. Code breaker and ground control are vastly different affairs. 

[Number5]

17 minutes ago, Eric-OH said:

The deterrent effect of this punishment is minimal in my opinion.  In fact, it doesn’t exist. In the future, a player weighing cheating on this level vs a complete non-punishment and total lack of responsibility is an easy call.  
If any of the players who did this continue to get away with it and face no penalties, why would anyone not commit this act if they see it as providing an advantage?  
None of them got punished even minimally so it’s hard to say that they didn’t fully get away with it.  
Reading Astroball and Darvish’s quotes it seems even more selfish that Houston wasn’t willing to compete and damning for their future, but MLB showed they barely care with their inaction.  Also, a reminder that the Astros were warned specifically several times to not misuse the video or the video room and blatantly ignored Manfred.  Still, no player faced a punishment.  

Well, Beltran did lose his job because of this, even though there was no punishment imposed on him directly by MLB.

[mdbdotcom]

37 minutes ago, Eric-OH said:

The deterrent effect of this punishment is minimal in my opinion.  In fact, it doesn’t exist. In the future, a player weighing cheating on this level vs a complete non-punishment and total lack of responsibility is an easy call.  
If any of the players who did this continue to get away with it and face no penalties, why would anyone not commit this act if they see it as providing an advantage?  
None of them got punished even minimally so it’s hard to say that they didn’t fully get away with it.  
Reading Astroball and Darvish’s quotes it seems even more selfish that Houston wasn’t willing to compete and damning for their future, but MLB showed they barely care with their inaction.  Also, a reminder that the Astros were warned specifically several times to not misuse the video or the video room and blatantly ignored Manfred.  Still, no player faced a punishment.  

As we have now learned, Astros management didn't just know this was going on, they spearheaded the effort by using the Codebreaker app to decipher opponents' signs. Codebreaker was introduced to Luhnow by an intern. Luhnow put it into use. Luhnow reportedly would go into the video room and ask the personnel there if they were codebreaking. It was a top down scam. I don't think the league (which is the owners) want to punish players for doing what their management told them to do. 

[Number5]

15 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

As we have now learned, Astros management didn't just know this was going on, they spearheaded the effort by using the Codebreaker app to decipher opponents' signs. Codebreaker was introduced to Luhnow by an intern. Luhnow put it into use. Luhnow reportedly would go into the video room and ask the personnel there if they were codebreaking. It was a top down scam. I don't think the league (which is the owners) want to punish players for doing what their management told them to do. 

As I understand the rules, the "codebreaker" system in and of itself wasn't against the rules.  Teams are allowed to try to pick up on other teams' signals.  Informing players of the opponents alternative signaling systems so that they can employ that information while on second base to pick up the catcher's sign and signal to your batter is not a violation.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  The violation would come into play if monitors are being used real-time to learn and relay the information to either the batter or the runner on second base.

[mdbdotcom]

11 minutes ago, Number5 said:

As I understand the rules, the "codebreaker" system in and of itself wasn't against the rules.  Teams are allowed to try to pick up on other teams' signals.  Informing players of the opponents alternative signaling systems so that they can employ that information while on second base to pick up the catcher's sign and signal to your batter is not a violation.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  The violation would come into play if monitors are being used real-time to learn and relay the information to either the batter or the runner on second base.

I think using the Codebreaker machine learning app in conjunction with video to decode signs in real time seems to go a step beyond the time-honored tradition of stealing signs. Of course, I could be wrong about that. But it sure is getting a lot of play since the WSJ story broke.

[weams]

 

[mdbdotcom]

The league gave all the players immunity in exchange for their cooperation. They can't go back and punish them now. 

They can establish new rules and punishments for future infractions, and they also can come up with ways to make it more difficult to cheat this way.

[joelala]

No one else thinks there’s a chance that we ‘mutually part ways’ with Elias after this? Sludge like this is gonna keep leaking out...

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, joelala said:

No one else thinks there’s a chance that we ‘mutually part ways’ with Elias after this? Sludge like this is gonna keep leaking out...

Zero.

[Going Underground]

56 minutes ago, joelala said:

No one else thinks there’s a chance that we ‘mutually part ways’ with Elias after this? Sludge like this is gonna keep leaking out...

I say zero unless he or Sig ordered the Codebreaker or Code Red from the start.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

I say zero unless he or Sig ordered the Codebreaker or Code Red from the start.

Sig could be tied to this give his role on the Astros. I’m not going to be concerned about this until something concrete leaks. 

[atomic]

I think it is pretty obvious the punishment is way too light at this point.  Pitchers saying they are going to throw at Astros and now Dusty Baker saying the league should protect the Astros players.  
 

Here is an article where Larry Bowa say the Astro players should definitely be beamed.

https://www.inquirer.com/phillies/phillies-legend-larry-bowa-astros-cheating-scandal-20200214.html

[GuidoSarducci]

Not sure if it was brought up in this thread, but maybe MLB should go the UEFA route and ban the Astros from the postseason for maybe two years.

[Chavez Ravine]

17 hours ago, GuidoSarducci said:

Not sure if it was brought up in this thread, but maybe MLB should go the UEFA route and ban the Astros from the postseason for maybe two years.

If they did that the Astros would just tank for two years. Their fans know the drill.

[ArtVanDelay]

44 minutes ago, Chavez Ravine said:

If they did that the Astros would just tank for two years. Their fans know the drill.

Tanking would be pointless since they have no 1st and 2nd for two years.