Orioles' last 5 tool player?

[weams]

1 hour ago, Aglets said:

Surprised no one has mentioned Jones yet.

AJ had a period where he hit 25, 32, 33, 29, 27, 29 homers.   Hit in the .280s for awhile.  I guess he wasn't really known for success on the base paths stealing, but I still think it's worthy of being in the conversation.  He peaked at 16 steals.  His defense I suppose was somewhat argued about, but clearly he went through a period where he was a great CF.  We could argue about how short it was.

He was Capt10 America just a few short years ago. Complete Stud when needed. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, weams said:

He was Capt10 America just a few short years ago. Complete Stud when needed. 

So I guess he wasn't needed in the 2012, 2014 and 2016 playoffs?  (combined -.65 WPA)

[DrungoHazewood]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It was six posts down on Orioles talk.

But sure, I got you.

 

I'm watching it, but the extended commercial about a special commemorative set of Derek Jeter cards has left me woozy, nauseated and more than a little disoriented.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm watching it, but the extended commercial about a special commemorative set of Derek Jeter cards has left me woozy, nauseated and more than a little disoriented.

I guess I could have put in a warning.

[DrungoHazewood]

Now Hanser Alberto is my favorite Oriole. He's where baseball needs to go.  Move the mound back 3', deaden the ball, and make everyone swing a 38+ ounce bat.

[BRobinsonfan]

On 6/1/2020 at 10:12 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm a huge Manny fan, but what records were those?  All I can come up with is most doubles by an American League player in the first half of a season since 1997.

Yeah, but that's one of the tougher ones to get.  Will it ever be broken? Or will his name, like Ripken for consecutive games played, or DiMaggio consecutive game hitting streak, go down in the annals of the sport as being the most prolific first half doubles hitter since 1997 of all time?  

[BRobinsonfan]

On 6/2/2020 at 12:56 PM, Moose Milligan said:

It's pretty dumb.  Also dumb is the whole notion that saying someone was a better defender than Brooks Robinson is sacreligious.  Now it's dumb to think that but the fact that people get so uppity when someone ventures to make that claim is obnoxious.

Step outside and say that.  No?  Didn't think so.  

[BRobinsonfan]

On 6/2/2020 at 1:23 PM, Frobby said:

 

Manny arguably was as good or better than typical Brooks in 2013.     But Brooks was fabulous every year for a very long time.   There’s really no comparison defensively over the longer haul.     Though Manny’s arm is something to behold.   

As much as I hate to agree with you when you're right you're right.  Manny was at least as good, and probably better than Brooks in 2013.  By 2013 Brooks' range had dropped off considerably.  

[Aglets]

15 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

As much as I hate to agree with you when you're right you're right.  Manny was at least as good, and probably better than Brooks in 2013.  By 2013 Brooks' range had dropped off considerably.  

But could he still out-hustle him? 

[Moose Milligan]

20 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

Step outside and say that.  No?  Didn't think so.  

Would happily do so.

[Moose Milligan]

17 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

As much as I hate to agree with you when you're right you're right.  Manny was at least as good, and probably better than Brooks in 2013.  By 2013 Brooks' range had dropped off considerably.  

Well it should have dropped off considerably by 2013, he was 76.

[Frobby]

42 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

As much as I hate to agree with you when you're right you're right.  Manny was at least as good, and probably better than Brooks in 2013.  By 2013 Brooks' range had dropped off considerably.  

I knew someone would make this joke.   Tried saying “typical Brooks” to cut it off.

Just going by Rtot, Manny’s best season of +34 was slightly better than Brooks’ best of +33.    But Manny has never had another season where he was +10 or higher, whereas Brooks had 13 other +10 or better, including seasons of +32, +23, and +21.    

[DrungoHazewood]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I knew someone would make this joke.   Tried saying “typical Brooks” to cut it off.

Just going by Rtot, Manny’s best season of +34 was slightly better than Brooks’ best of +33.    But Manny has never had another season where he was +10 or higher, whereas Brooks had 13 other +10 or better, including seasons of +32, +23, and +21.    

I wonder if or how much those numbers are influenced by the fact that in Brooks' era there were a little over half as many strikeouts as in Manny's, and that far fewer players in the 1950s-70s tried to hit every ball in the air. 

Back of the napkin, I get 500 balls in play per team per season gone because of Ks, and another 150 from the GO/AO differences just from 1990-2019.  So if there were even more ground outs in 1966 the Orioles probably saw at least 300-400 more infield BIP than the 2019 Orioles.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I wonder if or how much those numbers are influenced by the fact that in Brooks' era there were a little over half as many strikeouts as in Manny's, and that far fewer players in the 1950s-70s tried to hit every ball in the air. 

Back of the napkin, I get 500 balls in play per team per season gone because of Ks, and another 150 from the GO/AO differences just from 1990-2019.  So if there were even more ground outs in 1966 the Orioles probably saw at least 300-400 more infield BIP than the 2019 Orioles.

I'd also wager that the average exit velocity off the bat has increased enough to make a difference.

[Redskins Rick]

19 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I wonder if or how much those numbers are influenced by the fact that in Brooks' era there were a little over half as many strikeouts as in Manny's, and that far fewer players in the 1950s-70s tried to hit every ball in the air. 

Back of the napkin, I get 500 balls in play per team per season gone because of Ks, and another 150 from the GO/AO differences just from 1990-2019.  So if there were even more ground outs in 1966 the Orioles probably saw at least 300-400 more infield BIP than the 2019 Orioles.

Starters going 9 innings more and actually completing games, allow for more BIP.

Even your team's fireman/closer was expecting to pitch into the 3rd inning.

Lefty specialists for one batter was a concept not invented yet,

The days before the DH, even the AL played small ball, and bunting the running over, or the hit and run, sacrifice an out for movement of the runner.