So how many MVP votes does Ryan Howard deserve now?

[lovetoaster]

He has been the catalyst of their run recently, as they have won eight out of their last 11 to take the lead in the NL East.

His batting average is clearly sub-par at .249, but has 45 homers and 136 RBIs, both leading the league. He has truly been carrying a team that was 3.5 games out in the East and 4 games out in the wild card a week ago. Granted, the Mets and Brewers have collapsed, but the Phillies have still been winning, due in large part to Howard.

Last night alone, he saved a few runs with a great defensive play down the line and then won the game with a two-run homer with two outs in the bottom of the eighth after the Phillies had a mini-collapse of their own. he ended the night 4-for-5 with a homer, a triple (!), two runs scored and three RBIs.

This month alone, he is hotting .396 with eight homers - five of those have given the Phillies the lead.

I know some other guys have had some very impressive seasons, but to me, nobody is running away with the award. Howard is really making a strong case and nobody, in my opinion, is stepping up more at a more critical time.

[Migrant Redbird]

If the Phillies make the playoffs, Howard will win his second MVP award. If they fall short, it could be a battle royal between him, Pujols, Braun, and Delgado.

[oriole_way]

I'm not saying that Ryan Howard shouldn't get any consideration for the award, but I don't like how people think that the MVP should go to a player that has gotten hot at the end of the season on a playoff contender.

Howard deserves some consideration because he leads the league in hr and rbi. But he is really lacking in some other areas. I mean, the guy has a .249 batting average. His avg was .227 on August 26th. Even with his hot streak, his OPS is still only 19th in the league, .233 points below Pujols. That's not a typo.

Baseball is a team game. Just because the Phillies may come from behind and take the division from the Mets, doesn't mean that Howard should get the award. If Pujols and Howard had hypothetically traded places at thestart of the season, maybe the Phillies would have already clinched the NL East by now, or maybe the Cardinals wouldn't have stayed in the race as long as they did.

If the award is that heavily weighted towards a player who carries his team to the playoffs towards the end of the season, then Manny Ramirez probably deserves the award. The Dodgers were at .500 at the time of the trade, 2 games behind Arizona. They are now 7 games above .500 and have a 4.5 game lead in the division. And Manny has been on fire for 43 games, as opposed to this 23 game tear that Howard is on. Nobody has put up the stats Manny has since his trade to the Dodgers. And Manny has put up those stats playing half his games at Chavez Ravine, as opposed to Citizens Bank Park. He's putting up video game numbers with LA:

43 games

157 AB

14 HR

44 RBI

.401 AVG

.481 OBP

.745 SLG

1.227 OPS

25-18

[Flip217]

I'd take Ryan over Manny -- I just can't see giving the MVP award to a guy who quit on his team, forcing them to make a trade.

But then I look at the numbers you posted again and think I'm being silly....

[MChance]

Pujols deserves it regardless of how you look at it ... in my opinion, of course.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm not saying that Ryan Howard shouldn't get any consideration for the award, but I don't like how people think that the MVP should go to a player that has gotten hot at the end of the season on a playoff contender.

Howard deserves some consideration because he leads the league in hr and rbi. But he is really lacking in some other areas. I mean, the guy has a .249 batting average. His avg was .227 on August 26th. Even with his hot streak, his OPS is still only 19th in the league, .233 points below Pujols. That's not a typo.

Baseball is a team game. Just because the Phillies may come from behind and take the division from the Mets, doesn't mean that Howard should get the award. If Pujols and Howard had hypothetically traded places at thestart of the season, maybe the Phillies would have already clinched the NL East by now, or maybe the Cardinals wouldn't have stayed in the race as long as they did.

If the award is that heavily weighted towards a player who carries his team to the playoffs towards the end of the season, then Manny Ramirez probably deserves the award. The Dodgers were at .500 at the time of the trade, 2 games behind Arizona. They are now 7 games above .500 and have a 4.5 game lead in the division. And Manny has been on fire for 43 games, as opposed to this 23 game tear that Howard is on. Nobody has put up the stats Manny has since his trade to the Dodgers. And Manny has put up those stats playing half his games at Chavez Ravine, as opposed to Citizens Bank Park. He's putting up video game numbers with LA:

43 games

157 AB

14 HR

44 RBI

.401 AVG

.481 OBP

.745 SLG

1.227 OPS

25-18

Not quite sure if you can take a guy that's spent less than half a season with his new team. Not knocking Manny at all because he's been very valuable to his team, but I don't think he gets it.

Howard or Pujols will get it and it's hard to argue with either. Howard has really lifted the Phillies in September and voters will take that into consideration like they did for Chipper Jones a few years ago.

[oriole_way]

I'd take Ryan over Manny -- I just can't see giving the MVP award to a guy who quit on his team, forcing them to make a trade.

But then I look at the numbers you posted again and think I'm being silly....

Not quite sure if you can take a guy that's spent less than half a season with his new team. Not knocking Manny at all because he's been very valuable to his team, but I don't think he gets it.

Howard or Pujols will get it and it's hard to argue with either. Howard has really lifted the Phillies in September and voters will take that into consideration like they did for Chipper Jones a few years ago.

Actually, I'm not advocating that Manny gets the MVP. (I guess I wasn't that clear in my previous post.) When a player switches leagues, his stats from his former league aren't taken into consideration for league MVP. (I think that this is actually quite silly, but that's a different discussion.) But under that premise, I don't think Manny should get the award. I only mentioned Manny since Howard is getting consideration basically because he has been on fire for about 20-22 games. Before this hot streak, Howard was batting .227. Manny's hot streak in a pennant race has been more impressive than Howard's. So if the criteria for MVP consideration significantly involves how a player does down the stretch in a pennant race, then Manny deserves it over Howard. My point is that MVP shouldn't be so heavily weighted to what a player does over the final month of the season in a pennant race. I would say that someone like Albert Pujols is far more deserving.

[Baltimoron]

Nobody has put up the stats Manny has since his trade to the Dodgers. And Manny has put up those stats playing half his games at Chavez Ravine, as opposed to Citizens Bank Park. He's putting up video game numbers with LA:

43 games

157 AB

14 HR

44 RBI

.401 AVG

.481 OBP

.745 SLG

1.227 OPS

You like Pujols as an MVP candidate and admit not buying the rational that being hot down the stretch shouldn't be the sole criteria for the MVP, but you may also be surprised at Albert's excellent offensive production over this same time frame.

Albert Pujols batting from career game #1189 (Aug 1, 2008) to game #1229 (Sep 18, 2008) G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+ 41 182 155  27  55 16  0 13  37  26   6  16   1   0   0   7   1  1  .355  .451  .710 1.161 

link

Not quite at Manny's level, but the small offensive difference is likely far less than the disparity in defensive + baserunning value between the two over this same time frame.

St. Louis is no longer in the pennant race but beginning the day on 8/1 they were 5 games out in the Central and tied for the NL wildcard. link.

Obviously, Pujols is not to blame for their poor performance over this time frame.

[Baltimoron]

Howard is really making a strong case and nobody, in my opinion, is stepping up more at a more critical time.

Obviously the stats below are context neutral and Howard has certainly had some big moments during his recent hot streak. But I suspect Pujols has had some key hits as well. While Pujols' performance is not during such "critical a time" as Howard's because the other guys on his team aren't as good as the other guys on Howard's team, Albert has been pretty good too over the same time frame of Howard's recent hot streak.

Ryan Howard batting from career game #540 (Aug 24, 2008) to game #563 (Sep 18, 2008) G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+ 24 107  91  24  32  9  1 11  30  15   4  21   0   0   1   2   0  1  .352  .439  .835 1.274 

link

Albert Pujols batting from career game #1209 (Aug 24, 2008) to game #1229 (Sep 18, 2008) G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+ 21  91  78  13  27  8  0  7  19  13   4   7   0   0   0   5   0  0  .346  .440  .718 1.158 

link

And they also played a few months of baseball before August 24th as well.:scratchchinhmm:

[davearm]

"I see it this way: Someone who doesn't take his team to the playoffs doesn't deserve to win the MVP," Pujols said in Spanish at a news conference organized by the Dominican Republic's sports ministry.

Snubbed Pujols says MVP should be on playoff team

[DrungoHazewood]

He has been the catalyst of their run recently, as they have won eight out of their last 11 to take the lead in the NL East.

His batting average is clearly sub-par at .249, but has 45 homers and 136 RBIs, both leading the league. He has truly been carrying a team that was 3.5 games out in the East and 4 games out in the wild card a week ago. Granted, the Mets and Brewers have collapsed, but the Phillies have still been winning, due in large part to Howard.

Last night alone, he saved a few runs with a great defensive play down the line and then won the game with a two-run homer with two outs in the bottom of the eighth after the Phillies had a mini-collapse of their own. he ended the night 4-for-5 with a homer, a triple (!), two runs scored and three RBIs.

This month alone, he is hotting .396 with eight homers - five of those have given the Phillies the lead.

I know some other guys have had some very impressive seasons, but to me, nobody is running away with the award. Howard is really making a strong case and nobody, in my opinion, is stepping up more at a more critical time.

None. If he gets the MVP it'll be standard practice from a group of voters who gave it to the likes of Andre Dawson in '87 and Hank Sauer in '52. Doesn't much matter how one-dimensional you are, how limited you are in the field, or if you hit .260 with a .330 OBP... if you lead the league in HRs and RBI you're getting you some MVP votes.

[YardBirds13]

Pujols should win the award. It shouldn't even be close.

Therefore, I would expect him to finish somewhere between 3rd and 6th.

[Migrant Redbird]

Pujols should win the award. It shouldn't even be close.

Therefore, I would expect him to finish somewhere between 3rd and 6th.

Pujols has some interesting endorsements, but none of them have any votes.

St. Louis Post Dispatch: Lobbying for Pujols

By Joe Strauss and Derrick Goold

Voting members of the Baseball Writers of America must forward their ballots for MVP, Cy Young Award, Rookie of the Year and Manager of the Year by midnight next Sunday. Thirty-two scribes will decide whether Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols wins a second NL MVP Award in what is expected to be an excruciatingly close vote.

Though players have a say only in their Players Choice Awards, several have recently lobbied on Pujols' behalf.

Chicago Cubs first baseman Derrek Lee became the latest to speak out for El Hombre, saying Sunday, "It's Pujols. I think it's got to be Pujols with the numbers he's put up. A few guys have had really good years, but when you look at all the numbers and the production across the board, it's Pujols. … His numbers are ridiculously good."

Lee's endorsement capped a week in which two contenders, Dodgers left fielder Manny Ramirez and Phillies first baseman Ryan Howard, also jumped on Pujols' bandwagon.

No quotations or sources were provided for the Ramirez and Howard endorsements, though. However, while I don't have a lot of respect for either Strauss or Goold, I doubt if they would make up something like this. They might have taken some quotes out of context though, or quotes that weren't intended for attribution.....