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IMO Mussina Would Never Have Made the HOF Had He Remained an Oriole


Old#5fan

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as there is no way he would have ever won twenty games in a season. Now that he has achieved this milestone (thanks to his high powered Yankee offense and best closer to have ever lived) I think he makes it (much as it pains me to post).

He now has to be looked as very comparable to Don Sutton (another guy I personally thought was not HOF deserving) and Mussina owes this all to leaving the Orioles for the right team to enable this. It certainly took him a long time to take advantage of the Yankee assets but the fact remains he has done it. I see no barrier now to his HOF entrance eventually.

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The real question is this... if Mike Mussina is not offered to come back next year by the Yankees, would it be wise for the Orioles to take him on? He said if he were to go for 300-wins and the Yankees didn't want him back he would only play for teams within the area surrounding his home in PA.

Given our pitching situation, a two-year contract for Mussina isn't awful; a lot of people would be happy to have him back and he's serviceable as a innings eater. If he went down, I think we'd have some solid option on the farm to replace him.

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But still no World Series Ring for the Moose.

But I have to disagree 20 wins in a season being a milestone that gets him into the HOF. I think the 260+ wins is a better factor to go by. In all honesty he could have gotten them with the Orioles. He would had to average 13-17 wins a season and he did do that for some bad Orioles teams. So be saying he owes this all to leaving the Orioles and signing with the Yankees is crazy, If Orioles would have offered up the money he would be more then likely still be going to the HOF as an Orioles.

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The real question is this... if Mike Mussina is not offered to come back next year by the Yankees, would it be wise for the Orioles to take him on? He said if he were to go for 300-wins and the Yankees didn't want him back he would only play for teams within the area surrounding his home in PA.

Given our pitching situation, a two-year contract for Mussina isn't awful; a lot of people would be happy to have him back and he's serviceable as a innings eater. If he went down, I think we'd have some solid option on the farm to replace him.

I would love to have him back. He is exactly the kind of pitcher we need for a year or two to hold down a rotation spot so our young arms can get ready. I seriously doubt he would come back though. He may have gotten the 20-win monkey off his back but he is still desperately trying to get a ring, and that will not be happening in Baltimore any time soon.

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His options are limited then, Met and Phillies would be the most likely, or maybe even Reds or Indians. But he's getting older and would have a hard time convincing the front offices of contending teams that he's worth the price of admission. If the Yankees don't want him back, I'd be thrilled to have him as our number 1 or 2 for a season or two.

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He was wronged by Angelos, and the Yankees were there for him at the right time.

Eh, I understand that Mussina was low-balled initially, a timeless O's tactic that hopefully will no longer be utilized. But by the end of negotiations, Baltimore had a reported deal that I think was very fair. I just don't understand how he was "wronged" so badly by the O's organization.

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His options are limited then, Met and Phillies would be the most likely, or maybe even Reds or Indians. But he's getting older and would have a hard time convincing the front offices of contending teams that he's worth the price of admission. If the Yankees don't want him back, I'd be thrilled to have him as our number 1 or 2 for a season or two.

This has been discussed here.

Mussina is only willing to pitch for an American League team that is near his home if he doesn't return to the Yankees. Baltimore, Toronto and Cleveland are the only three teams that qualify.

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I think it is probably fair to estimate that pitching for the Yankees instead of the Orioles allowed Mussina to win an extra 15-20 games over the last 8 years. And yes, he probably would not have won 20 games this year if he had been pitching for the Orioles. But that has more to do with how lousy the Orioles have been recently than how good the Yankees have been. When Mussina was an Oriole, he won a lot of the time, even though the team was only about average during his 10 years here.

As an Oriole: 147-81 (.645), 2009.2 IP, 799 ER, 3.58 ERA

As a Yankee: 123-72 (.631), 1553.0 IP, 659 ER, 3.82 ERA

I can see the Don Sutton analogy, but Mussina has been a lot better than Sutton.

ERA+: 122 vs. 108

Winning %: .638 vs. .559

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Eh, I understand that Mussina was low-balled initially, a timeless O's tactic that hopefully will no longer be utilized. But by the end of negotiations, Baltimore had a reported deal that I think was very fair. I just don't understand how he was "wronged" so badly by the O's organization.

Yeah that's what I don't get about the people saying that he was "wronged by Angelos" or "there was only one person to blame in that situation". Come on, there's plenty of blame to go around for both parties.

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Eh, I understand that Mussina was low-balled initially, a timeless O's tactic that hopefully will no longer be utilized. But by the end of negotiations, Baltimore had a reported deal that I think was very fair. I just don't understand how he was "wronged" so badly by the O's organization.

I think saying he was "wronged" is not accurate. But Angelos badly misjudged Mussina's market value. He offered to sign for 5 years, $62.5 mm before the year began. That was a very reasonable demand by Mussina, but Angelos wouldn't pay it. So instead Mussina signed for 6 years, $88.5 mm when the year was over. I don't see how anyone can look at that and blame Mussina for leaving, or fail to blame Angelos for how he conducted the negotiations.

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I think saying he was "wronged" is not accurate. But Angelos badly misjudged Mussina's market value. He offered to sign for 5 years, $62.5 mm before the year began. That was a very reasonable demand by Mussina, but Angelos wouldn't pay it. So instead Mussina signed for 6 years, $88.5 mm when the year was over. I don't see how anyone can look at that and blame Mussina for leaving, or fail to blame Angelos for how he conducted the negotiations.

I don't blame Mussina for leaving, nor do I think Angelos handled the negotiations well. No doubt it was a gaffe on his part. But I don't think Mussina was terribly "wronged" in any case. At the end of the day the Orioles were willing to give Mussina a very fair contract.

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as there is no way he would have ever won twenty games in a season. Now that he has acieved this milestone (thanks to his high powered Yankee offense and best closer to have ever lived) I think he makes it (much as it pains me to post).

He now has to be looked as very comparable to Don Sutton (another guy I personally thought was not HOF deserving) and Mussina owes this all to leaving the Orioles for the right team to enable this. I certainly took him a long time to take advantage of the Yankee assets but the fact remains he has done it. I see no barrier now to his HOF entrance eventually.

Can you give this up please? You're literally clogging up the board.

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