MLB Network: Belanger. The best Shortstop

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, weams said:

The BioGenesis Potions were very magical. Micro dosed. Undetectable. 

I like the past tense.

[weams]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I like the past tense.

We have no idea what time slice was/is included. And I am a big Nelson fan. 

[DrungoHazewood]

26 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I like the past tense.

Everyone is clean now!  The record home run and strikeout rates are all analytics and juiced balls.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Everyone is clean now!  The record home run and strikeout rates are all analytics and juiced balls.

That's exactly what I meant.  He used the past tense because all of that stuff stopped and folks like Cruz are doing it the right way now.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's exactly what I meant.  He used the past tense because all of that stuff stopped and folks like Cruz are doing it the right way now.

If only Mickey Mantle had access to Mama Cruz' apple pie and pork chops he'd have hit 50 homers at the age of 50.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

If only Mickey Mantle had access to Mama Cruz' apple pie and pork chops he'd have hit 50 homers at the age of 50.

I think he would have preferred her Drunken Noodles.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think he would have preferred her Drunken Noodles.

Mmmm... drunken noodles.

[Beef Supreme]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

Everything’s relative.    Belanger was incredibly smooth, always in the right place, and could get a strong throw off incredibly quickly. He rarely laid out for a ball and scrambled to his feet the way Ozzie Smith and the great defensive shortstops who followed did.   I haven’t watched the film yet, but I’m hoping they have some good footage of vintage Belanger.   

Crazy talk: in Belanger's era, nobody provided more jaw-dropping plays from SS. There was nothing flashier about Ozzie Smith defensively than Blade; only the pre-game flips were flashier -- if you want to count that. I can't see how a dive and pop up throw is flashier than the gymnastic plays Belanger trademarked. Ozzie never threw out runners deep in the hole like Blade did; Belanger knew that the only chance to throw them out was not to dive and pop up to throw. I think you must be getting your wires crossed and mixing up your cherished memories of Ed Brinkman with Belanger.

 

[DanS]

My favorite quotes (as best as I can remember) about Belanger: "He didn't even wear a cup.  His hands were that good".  From Brooks - "When there was a high popup, we all just stood around and waited for Belanger to get it".  From guys in front of me at Memorial Stadium with runners on and Belanger up next.  The first guy says "Belanger's due".  His buddy says "Belanger's always due".

I recall Ozzy being flashier than Belanger, but I saw Belanger many, many times, and I just saw highlights and occasional games with Ozzie.  Belanger seemed to make all of the plays.  You had to see him often to truly appreciate him.  Hot smashes and bad hops that ate up other infielders were routine plays for the the blade. He made tough plays look easy.  You got used to seeing him make the tough plays seemingly without max effort, so maybe that's why he isn't remembered as flashy.

With Belanger and Brooks, Chuck Thompson and Bill O'Donnell would remark about how it was hardly worth it to try to hit a ball to their side of the infield.  Few balls ever got through.  It was truly a special time to watch defense in Baltimore, and you also had Paul Blair making plays in the outfield. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

With the conversation between modern players and players from past generations, we find difficulties. Obviously, as has been mentioned, previous generations did not face competition like today. For this reason many would say that today's players are the greatest ever. I wonder though, if players like Honus Wagner had access to all of the modern training and other "supplements", including being trained from preschool, how they might rank going up against today's players.

[NashLumber]

I'm glad this is getting a larger audience. I bought the DVD directly from the filmmaker when it was first available. There's a thread on it somewhere. I don't know who started that thread, but it's where  I learned about it. I'm thinking it was from 2018. 

 

Edit: YeOleDugger started a thread on the making of the film. 

 

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, DanS said:

My favorite quotes (as best as I can remember) about Belanger: "He didn't even wear a cup.  His hands were that good".  From Brooks - "When there was a high popup, we all just stood around and waited for Belanger to get it".  From guys in front of me at Memorial Stadium with runners on and Belanger up next.  The first guy says "Belanger's due".  His buddy says "Belanger's always due".

I recall Ozzy being flashier than Belanger, but I saw Belanger many, many times, and I just saw highlights and occasional games with Ozzie.  Belanger seemed to make all of the plays.  You had to see him often to truly appreciate him.  Hot smashes and bad hops that ate up other infielders were routine plays for the the blade. He made tough plays look easy.  You got used to seeing him make the tough plays seemingly without max effort, so maybe that's why he isn't remembered as flashy.

With Belanger and Brooks, Chuck Thompson and Bill O'Donnell would remark about how it was hardly worth it to try to hit a ball to their side of the infield.  Few balls ever got through.  

My favorite quote was from Detroit manager Mayo Smith, who said trying to hit a ball through the left side of the Oriole infield was “like trying to throw a hamburger through a brick wall.”

[NashLumber]

16 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm hoping for more footage, too.  I've never really seen much to begin with.  There has to be some out there.  Obviously televised baseball wasn't huge back then but there's gotta be some clips somewhere.

On a similar note, my knowledge of Brooks' defensive prowess is limited to highlights of the 1970 World Series.

I've seen it (I own the DVD). There's not as much game footage as I had expected.You may be in for a let down in that regard.  There actually may be more on YouTube just from watching the '69 and '70 World Series.  But it's still very worth your time.  A lot of the focus is on his upbringing, his high school basketball heroics (he was legendary in that part of the state) and maybe not a total surprise, quite a bit on his post baseball career. It really focuses more on his life story and where he came from. 

Btw, I hurried through this thread and not sure if anyone caught this. I saw the local paper of his region write about this and Dan Duquette was instrumental in getting this on the Network. 

 

"Dastoli said that getting the documentary on the MLB Network was made possible by two Taconic High School graduates, Dan Duquette and Mike Ryan.

"Dan had seen the film. He didn't go to the premiere party [at the Boland Theatre at Berkshire Community College] in 2018," Dastoli said. "Once Dan saw it, he knew that Mike could help us out with Mike's background in programming at ESPN." "

 

https://www.berkshireeagle.com/stories/documentary-on-berkshires-native-belanger-to-air-on-mlb-network,613421?

 

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, NashLumber said:

I've seen it (I own the DVD). There's not as much game footage as I had expected.You may be in for a let down in that regard.  There actually may be more on YouTube just from watching the '69 and '70 World Series.  But it's still very worth your time.  A lot of the focus is on his upbringing, his high school basketball heroics (he was legendary in that part of the state) and maybe not a total surprise, quite a bit on his post baseball career. It really focuses more on his life story and where he came from. 

Btw, I hurried through this thread and not sure if anyone caught this. I saw the local paper of his region write about this and Dan Duquette was instrumental in getting this on the Network. 

 

"Dastoli said that getting the documentary on the MLB Network was made possible by two Taconic High School graduates, Dan Duquette and Mike Ryan.

"Dan had seen the film. He didn't go to the premiere party [at the Boland Theatre at Berkshire Community College] in 2018," Dastoli said. "Once Dan saw it, he knew that Mike could help us out with Mike's background in programming at ESPN." "

 

https://www.berkshireeagle.com/stories/documentary-on-berkshires-native-belanger-to-air-on-mlb-network,613421?

 

Sorry to hear there’s not much footage, but it still sounds like something I’d enjoy watching.  And  kudos to Duquette for helping to get this on the air.     

[Frobby]

Belanger has a strong case as the best defensive SS of all time.  In Total Zone Runs, Ozzie Smith noses him out 239 to 238, both far ahead of the no. 3 spot (held by Cal at 176).    But Ozzie played about 40% more innings at SS than Belanger, so on a per game basis, Belanger easily wins.