Free Agent Shortstops

[Mackus]

As long as we don't give up a draft pick or give out more than a 2-year contract, I'm fine with any of the FA SS options. I'd prefer to find a young guy we could trade for, or to get Khalil Greene on the cheap, but the FAs are a decent route as well. Certainly better than putting up with what we had in 2008.

[Three Run Homer]

My preferred options, in order:

(1) Trade a veteran like Scott, Huff or Roberts and get a young SS in return--either someone at AA/AAA or someone like Cedeno who hasn't yet established himself as a starter.

(2) Trade one of our prospects outside our top 4 to get a good young SS.

(3) Trade a veteran or non-top 4 prospect to get Khalil Greene.

(4) Sign a free-agent gloveman to a cheap 1-2 year contract--Adam Everett, if he can still pick it, or even Juan Castro. Offense not necessary.

(5-999): various combinations of lousy SS, teeth gnashing, hair pulling...

(1000) Throw a bunch of money or years at any of the available FAs.

Honestly, I'd rather have someone cheap with plus defense and a .600 OPS than Rafael Furcal or Orlando Cabrera, given what it's going to cost to sign the latter. None of the premium guys is worth what they're going to get; better to spend that money on starting pitching.

[miwayjO's]

Didn't I read, or hear Trembley & MacPhail say they wanted to upgrade the offense from the SS position, as well as a solid defender?

[Mackus]

Didn't I read' date=' or hear Trembley & MacPhail say they wanted to upgrade the offense from the SS position, as well as a solid defender?[/quote']It'd be very difficult to not upgrade our defense at SS from '08 to '09 and damn near impossible to not upgrade the offense.

[miwayjO's]

Sad, but true Mackus...Go O's!!!

[DrungoHazewood]

It'd be very difficult to not upgrade our defense at SS from '08 to '09 and damn near impossible to not upgrade the offense.

The O's got a .535 OPS out of their shortstops this year.

There were 21 International League shortstops (min 100 ABs) with translated OPSes higher than that.

	        Year	Age	Tm	Lge	AB	H	DB	TP	HR	BB	SO	R	RBI	SB	CS	Out	BA	OBA	SA	EQA	OPSA_Cabrera	2008	22	BUF	Int	142	42	7	1	5	7	23	26	13	1	2	102	0.296	0.342	0.465	0.271	0.807Jed_Lowrie	2008	24	PAW	Int	199	48	13	1	6	31	39	36	32	1	0	156	0.241	0.336	0.412	0.264	0.748Brian_Bixler	2008	25	IND	Int	326	89	8	4	8	27	93	43	37	16	6	250	0.273	0.335	0.396	0.26	0.731Luis_Cruz	2008	24	IND	Int	121	37	7	0	4	3	13	19	15	1	4	90	0.306	0.328	0.471	0.258	0.799Matthew_Macri	2008	26	ROC	Int	317	71	22	3	11	25	80	34	45	1	2	253	0.224	0.287	0.416	0.24	0.703Maxwell_Leon	2008	24	TOL	Int	151	40	3	2	0	17	30	16	12	6	2	118	0.265	0.335	0.311	0.24	0.646Josh_Wilson	2008	27	IND	Int	300	73	16	1	6	23	47	27	31	7	4	239	0.243	0.307	0.363	0.237	0.67Erick_Almonte	2008	30	TOL	Int	401	89	22	1	10	50	74	48	46	2	2	317	0.222	0.308	0.357	0.234	0.665Paul_Janish	2008	25	LOU	Int	325	73	17	1	8	26	65	45	41	1	0	260	0.225	0.294	0.357	0.23	0.651Reid_Brignac	2008	22	DUR	Int	354	80	23	2	10	25	84	43	42	3	2	283	0.226	0.275	0.387	0.229	0.662A_Gonzalez	2008	25	SWB	Int	190	44	5	0	5	16	28	23	23	3	2	153	0.232	0.292	0.337	0.225	0.629Sergio_Santos	2008	24	ROC	Int	298	68	16	1	8	16	53	45	46	3	1	236	0.228	0.266	0.369	0.221	0.635B_Lillibridge	2008	24	RIC	Int	359	72	19	6	5	33	81	45	39	16	6	300	0.201	0.273	0.329	0.218	0.602Chris_Basak	2008	29	ROC	Int	175	37	7	0	6	14	39	17	15	3	6	146	0.211	0.272	0.354	0.211	0.626Gil_Velazquez	2008	28	PAW	Int	356	74	15	3	10	20	75	50	41	2	2	291	0.208	0.253	0.351	0.208	0.604Pedro_Lopez	2008	24	SYR	Int	343	73	12	1	2	33	57	38	26	3	1	279	0.213	0.282	0.271	0.199	0.553Ed_Rogers	2008	29	COH	Int	304	68	7	0	6	11	48	29	21	9	8	252	0.224	0.259	0.306	0.196	0.565Nick_Green	2008	29	SWB	Int	397	78	13	1	11	24	105	38	44	2	2	329	0.196	0.245	0.317	0.194	0.562Brandon_Fahey	2008	27	NOR	Int	225	50	4	0	2	20	47	25	22	0	3	181	0.222	0.286	0.271	0.192	0.557Fernando_Cortez	2008	26	CHR	Int	359	78	11	2	4	15	32	24	31	6	4	291	0.217	0.249	0.29	0.186	0.539Ray_Olmedo	2008	27	COH	Int	358	76	14	2	4	18	39	34	29	5	9	299	0.212	0.25	0.296	0.185	0.546

If you include the entire minors you could certainly find 50 or 60 shortstops who outhit the O's bunch last year. Throw in Mexico, Japan, Korea, and Cuba and collectively the Seven Dwarves probably weren't the 75th-best non-MLB SS in the world.

[El Gordo]

The O's got a .535 OPS out of their shortstops this year.

There were 21 International League shortstops (min 100 ABs) with translated OPSes higher than that.

	        Year	Age	Tm	Lge	AB	H	DB	TP	HR	BB	SO	R	RBI	SB	CS	Out	BA	OBA	SA	EQA	OPSA_Cabrera	2008	22	BUF	Int	142	42	7	1	5	7	23	26	13	1	2	102	0.296	0.342	0.465	0.271	0.807Jed_Lowrie	2008	24	PAW	Int	199	48	13	1	6	31	39	36	32	1	0	156	0.241	0.336	0.412	0.264	0.748Brian_Bixler	2008	25	IND	Int	326	89	8	4	8	27	93	43	37	16	6	250	0.273	0.335	0.396	0.26	0.731Luis_Cruz	2008	24	IND	Int	121	37	7	0	4	3	13	19	15	1	4	90	0.306	0.328	0.471	0.258	0.799Matthew_Macri	2008	26	ROC	Int	317	71	22	3	11	25	80	34	45	1	2	253	0.224	0.287	0.416	0.24	0.703Maxwell_Leon	2008	24	TOL	Int	151	40	3	2	0	17	30	16	12	6	2	118	0.265	0.335	0.311	0.24	0.646Josh_Wilson	2008	27	IND	Int	300	73	16	1	6	23	47	27	31	7	4	239	0.243	0.307	0.363	0.237	0.67Erick_Almonte	2008	30	TOL	Int	401	89	22	1	10	50	74	48	46	2	2	317	0.222	0.308	0.357	0.234	0.665Paul_Janish	2008	25	LOU	Int	325	73	17	1	8	26	65	45	41	1	0	260	0.225	0.294	0.357	0.23	0.651Reid_Brignac	2008	22	DUR	Int	354	80	23	2	10	25	84	43	42	3	2	283	0.226	0.275	0.387	0.229	0.662A_Gonzalez	2008	25	SWB	Int	190	44	5	0	5	16	28	23	23	3	2	153	0.232	0.292	0.337	0.225	0.629Sergio_Santos	2008	24	ROC	Int	298	68	16	1	8	16	53	45	46	3	1	236	0.228	0.266	0.369	0.221	0.635B_Lillibridge	2008	24	RIC	Int	359	72	19	6	5	33	81	45	39	16	6	300	0.201	0.273	0.329	0.218	0.602Chris_Basak	2008	29	ROC	Int	175	37	7	0	6	14	39	17	15	3	6	146	0.211	0.272	0.354	0.211	0.626Gil_Velazquez	2008	28	PAW	Int	356	74	15	3	10	20	75	50	41	2	2	291	0.208	0.253	0.351	0.208	0.604Pedro_Lopez	2008	24	SYR	Int	343	73	12	1	2	33	57	38	26	3	1	279	0.213	0.282	0.271	0.199	0.553Ed_Rogers	2008	29	COH	Int	304	68	7	0	6	11	48	29	21	9	8	252	0.224	0.259	0.306	0.196	0.565Nick_Green	2008	29	SWB	Int	397	78	13	1	11	24	105	38	44	2	2	329	0.196	0.245	0.317	0.194	0.562Brandon_Fahey	2008	27	NOR	Int	225	50	4	0	2	20	47	25	22	0	3	181	0.222	0.286	0.271	0.192	0.557Fernando_Cortez	2008	26	CHR	Int	359	78	11	2	4	15	32	24	31	6	4	291	0.217	0.249	0.29	0.186	0.539Ray_Olmedo	2008	27	COH	Int	358	76	14	2	4	18	39	34	29	5	9	299	0.212	0.25	0.296	0.185	0.546

If you include the entire minors you could certainly find 50 or 60 shortstops who outhit the O's bunch last year. Throw in Mexico, Japan, Korea, and Cuba and collectively the Seven Dwarves probably weren't the 75th-best non-MLB SS in the world.

Great. Now if we only knew which of these weren't potential 2B/3B/UTIF and which could field their positions decently we'd be in business. Hopefully the O's have ways of determining these things.

[Enjoy Terror]

But Brandon Fahey is in that list of AAA shortstops who hit better than the O's. Brandon Fahey is part of the problem, and I'd imagine a lot of those AAA shortstops aren't part of the solution!

[El Gordo]

To answer your question look at the names below Cabrera.

Him being "rated highly" on a list like this is hardly impressive.

So now you're reverting to THT from TFB?

One reason he's first in OOZ is because of the number of balls hit in his direction. He actually finished second in relation to BIP - which is the better way to look at OOZ. By the way, the overall list of AL qualifying AL SS is extremely thin in terms of true talent.

I'm going to run the same RAA numbes tonight, except with THT fiedling stats, and I'm going with a weighted 3 year system.

I go back and forth between the two. They often seem to be in disagreement Your explanation about OOZ is helpful. I generally accept the FB +- over the other stats, but many here seem to distrust them, so I double check with THT. IF a guy has a good +- as well as a high RZR, OOZ, and FP, I feel that's a good indication that his pretty good with the glove. OCab has shown decline with the FB +- but is still a + 1, I believe, while he fairs better with the THT stats. Basically he's better with the glove that Castro IMO and as good if not better with the bat as Cintron. Combined that would be a serious upgrade from what we've had though not what you'd want for the future. The question is how long will it take to come up with the good young SS of the future and what do we do in the meantime. Unlike others here I don't see them growing on trees. E.g. if you assume likely suiters for BRob are the LAD, the Rox, the White Sox, the D'backs, Cards, and Cleveland I don't see mainy top SS prospects to be had in return, other than Kozma, (several years away), Nelson(falling out of favor), and DeJesus(2B, and unlikely to be traded IMO). Wood for Huff is a long shot IMO.

[Spoonless]

There is a SS available the O's can aquire through trade' date=' but I hope they avoid doing so. Julio Lugo has been replaced by Jed Lowrie @ SS for the BoSox, and Lugo still has 2yr/18mil remaining on his contract. Lugo has a great agent, I'm not sure what Boston was thinking...Go O's!!![/quote']

I expect the Sox to be shopping him hard this offseason. I don't think he'd cost too much talent-wise if you take on some of the contract, but I also expect that the Sox are going to have to eat some of the money in order to move him.

I don't have his stats in front of me, but from what I remember of his play this season (I'm in the BoSox market, so I tend to watch a lot of their games) and his treatment in the media, his bat definitely did not make up for his less-than-stellar play at SS. Now, perhaps this means that he'll be trying hard to bounce back over the next two seasons to make a push for one more decent contract (he'll be 34 when he's a FA again), or maybe he's just kind of done. In either case, I'm not a proponent of

pursuing him.

[Frobby]

Okay, I've updated some work I did last night. I've seen something like 20 different SS mentioned in this thread, so I ran their numbers for the last three years.

Just curious - how would Tejada have ranked under your system?

[Pheasants]

Is there any way to do a similar study of the minor league SSs that people keep bringing up? I suspect there is too much difference in levels to make it possible to compare.